Resetting dovetail alignment.

[Osseon]

Recently went to the range with some family and was firing at about a 80 yard target and missing constantly. Usually my windage was dead on but my elevation is all over the place (still trying to find the perfect PRB/Powder combo). Well this time I missed every shot I took, then when we shot at a 34 yard target I would hit paper but pulled to the right, then had some malfunction (woops left a cleaning patch in the gun after last time cleaning). We called it a day.

While cleaning the rifle I saw this travesty:

My front post was all the way to the left. To this day I have no idea how it moved as it takes something like a hammer to tap it around, but now I'm completely misaligned and don't really know how to zero it back to center properly. How do you center it to the barrel and rear sight other then eyeballing it?

 

[EC121]

I use a vernier caliper and measure from both flat corners until the sight is centered. Then make some sort of reference mark. A scratch or small punch mark.

I might also add that sometimes it is necessary to move the front sight a bit to keep from having the back sight too far to one side. I have a friend who is convinced that the old timers sighted in by bending their barrels, because a lot of the old guns have the sights centered and filed flush to the dovetail.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Recently went to the range with some family and was firing at about a 80 yard target and missing constantly. Usually my windage was dead on but my elevation is all over the place (still trying to find the perfect PRB/Powder combo). Well this time I missed every shot I took, then when we shot at a 34 yard target I would hit paper but pulled to the right, then had some malfunction (woops left a cleaning patch in the gun after last time cleaning). We called it a day.

While cleaning the rifle I saw this travesty:

View attachment 115880

My front post was all the way to the left. To this day I have no idea how it moved as it takes something like a hammer to tap it around, but now I'm completely misaligned and don't really know how to zero it back to center properly. How do you center it to the barrel and rear sight other then eyeballing it?

Since you do not know where the sight needs to be for zero, just eyeball center. Make sure the sight is snug even if you have to slightly compress the barrel onto the sight. (hammer tap with square end 1/8" diameter steel punch) Just enough so it is not going to move with recoil. At the range shoot and adjust accordingly. A brass punch and hammer is needed to bump the sight. Once you have the sight on zero, then you need to make it more solid. My method is to take a very small center punch and indent three divots along the joint where the sight meets the barrel. That locks in in place. If you need to move it later, then the brass punch and hammer will still work.
Larry

 

[Osseon]

Since you do not know where the sight needs to be for zero, just eyeball center. Make sure the sight is snug even if you have to slightly compress the barrel onto the sight. (hammer tap with square end 1/8" diameter steel punch) Just enough so it is not going to move with recoil. At the range shoot and adjust accordingly. A brass punch and hammer is needed to bump the sight. Once you have the sight on zero, then you need to make it more solid. My method is to take a very small center punch and indent three divots along the joint where the sight meets the barrel. That locks in in place. If you need to move it later, then the brass punch and hammer will still work.
Larry

Yeah it won't currently move by hand, I had to use my rubber mallet to bump it roughly to center. Punching the barrel to make it tighter may be premature as I'm still not sure how to got misaligned. Its possible it was hit on something hard enough to move it while I was taking it out of the car and not recoil.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Yeah it won't currently move by hand, I had to use my rubber mallet to bump it roughly to center. Punching the barrel to make it tighter may be premature as I'm still not sure how to got misaligned. Its possible it was hit on something hard enough to move it while I was taking it out of the car and not recoil.

It just needs to be tight enough so you can zero without it moving while in the process.
Good luck!
Larry

 

[JamesT]

Not being condescending but if you are shooting 80 yards without a good zero and not knowing your DOPE and with loose sights its not going to be productive. I have no idea where you are with your skill level but my recommendations are as follows.
Try different loads and exercise the fundamentals of good marksmanship until you are shooting good tight groups at 25yds regardless of where the groups are on the paper. Now you know your load.
Next check and see what your groups look like at 50 yards. Now you can see if the ball is still rising significantly. Depending on your decision whether you hunt or mainly target shoot decide what range you want your sights zeroed.
Windage is controlled by drifting your sights left and right. Elevation is adjusted by filing your front sight down to raise your point of impact. Remember once you remove material it won't go back. Tighten the sights down using one of the methods in the previous replies.
Now you have a zeroed rifle. Now use Kentucky Windage to hold higher or change your sight alignment by burying your front sight or raising it in regards to the rear notch to hit the target at say 75 or 100 yards. With practice you can become quite good at shooting different distances knowing the dope on your rifle. Then you can throw in the variable of range estimation if you are field shooting!
Lastly an acronym to remember which way to move your sight for zero is..FORS
Front
Opposite
Rear
Same
Hope this helps you improve.
James

 

[Osseon]

Not being condescending but if you are shooting 80 yards without a good zero and not knowing your DOPE and with loose sights its not going to be productive. I have no idea where you are with your skill level but my recommendations are as follows.
Try different loads and exercise the fundamentals of good marksmanship until you are shooting good tight groups at 25yds regardless of where the groups are on the paper. Now you know your load.
Next check and see what your groups look like at 50 yards. Now you can see if the ball is still rising significantly. Depending on your decision whether you hunt or mainly target shoot decide what range you want your sights zeroed.
Windage is controlled by drifting your sights left and right. Elevation is adjusted by filing your front sight down to raise your point of impact. Remember once you remove material it won't go back. Tighten the sights down using one of the methods in the previous replies.
Now you have a zeroed rifle. Now use Kentucky Windage to hold higher or change your sight alignment by burying your front sight or raising it in regards to the rear notch to hit the target at say 75 or 100 yards. With practice you can become quite good at shooting different distances knowing the dope on your rifle. Then you can throw in the variable of range estimation if you are field shooting!
Lastly an acronym to remember which way to move your sight for zero is..FORS
Front
Opposite
Rear
Same
Hope this helps you improve.
James

Thanks for the advice! As I said the front sight isn't really loose, I tried as hard as I could to move it by hand and it won't budge, a mallet has to be involved. I had previously shot at 80 yards with perfect windage, all shooting at 6 or 12'oclock of center. At 30 yards I hit consistent bullseyes. The range I went to only has those two range options so while hitting bullseyes at 30 I was working my way up, and suddenly couldn't hit anything. Moved back to 30 and pulled to the right, confused and defeated I went home to discover something must have knocked the barrel hard to get the sight to shift. I'll be even more careful with the rifle transporting it to the range, but I've let a few friends handle it now and maybe one of them bumped it against a tree or table while I wasn't looking.

 

[flntlokr]

I have always simply eyeballed the center position of the front sight; you willbe within a few thous doing it that way. further windage adjustment is all via the rear sight. Unless the bore is off center, or the barrel bent, that should suffice. I generally '0' for 50 yds; 25 is essentially the same picture, about 6" low at 100. (that will change with ball speed).

 

[Rich44]

With your front sight that far left, no wonder your shooting far to the right. Using a rubber mallet to move the front sight to center position is also wrong. A proper fitting dovetail sight should take a brass punch and small hammer to move it. You may think it is not loose but the proof is it is way out of center, I will say it one more time it should take a brass punch and small hammer to move a dovetail sight. A rubber mallet should be very much not solid enough to move it. So the bottom word is to install a new front sight or tighten this one up. And tap it to eye center on barrel. Also check rear sight that it is tight and center. There is no way to know where it will shoot before taking it to the range and shooting a group at maybe no more than 50 yds. Adjust sights now that they are fixed for proper tightness with brass punch and small hammer. Move rear sight the way you want the bullet to go and front sight the opposite direction you wish the bullet to move . And use common sense in using both sights to obtain zero, so one or the other sight does not show all the correction needed. Then regroup for elevation another day.

 

[Osseon]

With your front sight that far left, no wonder your shooting far to the right. Using a rubber mallet to move the front sight to center position is also wrong. A proper fitting dovetail sight should take a brass punch and small hammer to move it. You may think it is not loose but the proof is it is way out of center, I will say it one more time it should take a brass punch and small hammer to move a dovetail sight. A rubber mallet should be very much not solid enough to move it. So the bottom word is to install a new front sight or tighten this one up. And tap it to eye center on barrel. Also check rear sight that it is tight and center. There is no way to know where it will shoot before taking it to the range and shooting a group at maybe no more than 50 yds. Adjust sights now that they are fixed for proper tightness with brass punch and small hammer. Move rear sight the way you want the bullet to go and front sight the opposite direction you wish the bullet to move . And use common sense in using both sights to obtain zero, so one or the other sight does not show all the correction needed. Then regroup for elevation another day.

is something like this what would be needed?

https://www.amazon.com/Starrett-B56...1642690701&sprefix=brass+punch,aps,81&sr=8-10

 

[JamesT]

Yes

 

[Rich44]

Yes

Yep

 

[deerstalkert]

another way to secure the dovetail is to warm the barrel and sight, flush with acetone, then when dry give it a squeeze of blue locktite. clean when dry.

 

[DuncNZ]

James T is spot on with his advise . Have a look at this Lyman Hammer . It is a great tool with a brass punch stored in the handle . and 3 different hammer heads .
Lyman "Brass Tapper" Hammer | Lyman Tools

 

[Freedom]

https://www.wyomingsightdrifter.com/ The Wyoming site drifter

This little tool is very handy!