Resolving Sticky Gun Purchase

[BigSkyRambler]

Need some input from the hive mind. I recently purchased a Numrich Arms Swivel barrel .45. I had one in the mid 70s: my second muzzleloader. Anyway, I was excited to find one for sale. It arrived with a dinged buttstock from a hard drop thanks to the fine folks at FedEx. This was depressing, but I paid for insurance. Talked to shop it came from almost immediately and told them I thought $100 would make it right. They were going to talk to manager/owner. That taken care of, I made two discoveries, one disappointing and one horrifying. The first is what I had not noticed that both front ramrod thimbles were missing. The second is that BOTH barrels were loaded one

had an unfired cap on its nipple!!! This I gingerly removed, as it was corroded in place. An option they gave me for stock damage was to ship it back, but I gave no real idea what it is loaded with and do not have a ball puller. There is no way I am risking shipping this back loaded. The gun is kind of rusty, but I knew that. My plan was a restoration and maybe fabricate walnut side panels. An attempt was made to take off nipples and drums, but this ain't happening without soaking in penetrating oil. Then, I have to pay to have a stout ball puller welded up for me. I have always just shot out my own dry balls. Do you all think it out if line for me to request a much more significant refund, considering the increased sweat equity to put this gun in the order it should have come? I welcome your input.

 

[bubba.50]

I’d want ALL my money back from the seller including funds to ship it back.

As for the loads, l personally would tie it to a tire and try shooting them out but l’m not gonna recommend that to anyone else. That’s just if it was me and l didn’t have any other way to unload it.

If you can get the nipples out you could get a grease zerk and pump the loads out. Not as messy as it sounds.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

Agreed, I would want all my money back too and would be their worst nightmare until that happened.

 

[BigSkyRambler]

I’d want ALL my money back from the seller including funds to ship it back.

As for the loads, l personally would tie it to a tire and try shooting them out but l’m not gonna recommend that to anyone else. That’s just if it was me and l didn’t have any other way to unload it.

If you can get the nipples out you could get a grease zerk and pump the loads out. Not as messy as it sounds.

If I can get half my money back, then I will soak in oil, disassemble, and then try and determine what gun loaded with. My pitch to the shop will be that they are looking at:
1 Cost of return shipping as HazMat

2 Billable hours spent putting gun into sellable condition

3 Additional fees to resell online where I found it.

Those alone could be over $200. I suspect that they paid less than half what I paid for it and would be willing to deal to avoid the hassle.

 

[bubba.50]

Wishing you the best of luck neighbor.

 

[nhmoose]

As a former shop owner it sounds like blackmail to me and it even became more.

Ship it back and get your refund.

Not in this forums interest IMHO

 

[BigSkyRambler]

As a former shop owner it sounds like blackmail to me and it even became more.

Ship it back and get your refund.

Not in this forums interest IMHO

Blackmail? Let's review.

They shipped me a loaded caplock with a percussion cap on its nipple. As a former shop owner, surely you wouldn't let that happen.

I bought the gun for sentimental reasons in what I thought was decent condition. The stock damage was on FedEx. The rest on the shop. I am happy to keep it and bring it back, but not for the price I paid and not just reduced by cost of stock repair. In my book, I am giving these guys a way out. If it was me, I would take that deal in a heartbeat. In fact, I have taken that deal on guns I unknowingly sold with hidden flaws and was glad to do it.

 

[nhmoose]

You asked for money and the gun and then even here raised the cost.

Your dealer said send it back but yet you continue to want it and money.

the loaded part means nothing it is the dealers problem and not ours. The cap is off now send it back

That is blackmail on internet deals by most every seller I know.

Send it back and get your money back.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Always wanted one of those, that being said I would haggle the seller for a 50% refund, unload the rifle and totally re-work the gun, If you told the shipper it was loaded upon return I would bet they would ask you to leave, then if you do not make them aware it is loaded and god forbid it went off during shipment guess who they are coming for. Even at the cost of a re-stock, side panels and a few thimbles, and some elbow grease too clean it up, Think of it this way stocking and panels nice curl maple, I would brown the metal. Not knowing what you paid for the gun added to the cost of the work you now have a decent swivel breech. A Leonard day swivel for comparison if you can find one wild guess would run around 2000 to 2500 dollars. This type of incident is one reason I very seldom buy on line. A few dollars for a good quality range rod and ball puller and your in business.

 

[oldwood]

None of this sounds catastrophic. Nipples should come out w/ a proper nipple wrench , and good dose of over night penetrating oil. Track of the wolf has the best ball remover screw ends. Ball screw ..and . TOTW Ramrod adapter from 3/16" by 32 thread per " , female thread to whatever the male ball screw thread might be. Piece of 3/16 " hardware store rod stock longer than the gun barrel , threaded 3/16 " by 32 tp" both ends. put a 2" kitchen drawer knob on the blank end of the steel rod......You've just built a cheap ,fits all , metal ramrod for around $15 bucks. A muzzle protector can be added if the rod will be used frequently . To pull the balls w/ the steel range ramrod , make sure you lube the bore before pulling. Thread the ball screw into the lead ball firmly and stop when the rod gets tight . Use no tools on this operation , lest the threads strip out of the lead ball. Important.....Hook the knob end of the range rod in open vise jaws or between some immovable thing , and pull on the gun w/ a steady pressure until the ball comes loose. R/R thimbles are an easy fix. Wrap some brass sheet metal around a 3/8" rod , Bend the sheet metal round the 3/8" rod , until the tab ends can be clamped in a vice tightly. Hammer loose the 3/8" rod from the new thimble w/ a punch . If the thimble is bent and needs straightened , put tabs in vice and drive the 3/8" rod through again. Instead of doing all the R/R making BS, TOTW sells thimbles as well.
Always wanted one of those Numrich Arms O/U rifles, hope you can easily fix this one...............oldwood

 

[Justin.44]

Asking for a partial refund because a product was not quite as advertised is not blackmail. Telling the shop owner he has proof of him cheating on his wife and threatening to expose him unless he pays would be blackmail...

All the OP can do is ask, and all the shop owner can do is accept or decline the offer made to him. Seems like a reasonable proposition to me, whether it works out for him or not.

 

[hawkeye2]

The stock was damaged in shipping and you seem to indicate you are working on an equitable solution with the seller or shipper. You say you didn't notice the missing thimbles which implies they provided photos which would have shown that. If so then that's entirely on you and not the dealer. It was loaded, well they should have checked it but a lot of muzzleloaders are sold with loads in them, not ideal but it happens. You seem to imply that they should compensate you for having to make a ball puller. If you are going to shoot muzzleloaders you need one anyway sooner or later Stuck nipples? Heck that's an everyday problem.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh and I do understand your frustration and disappointment. If it were me and I felt as you do I would contact the seller with a list of the issues and ask them what they would like to do. My feeling is that they should refund your money and shipping both ways would be nice too. Have you checked to see what their return policy is? If I were the seller I would ask that you return it and issue a refund rather than a partial refund with you keeping the piece.

We have no idea what you paid for it or if it was even a fair price for you or the seller but keep in mind that if you can't work anything out that there is nothing wrong with that gun that cannot be fixed.

 

[BigSkyRambler]

I suspect that we will be able to agree to an equitable solution that saves us both grief and money. Thanks for the input.

 

[firestick]

No blackmail here at all. It was supposed to be a good deal at a fair price. Turns out it was a shoddy product not as described. If you can't pay attention to what you are selling then you deserve to take it in the shorts on this. I also suspect it could have and should have been packed better. Oh and shipping FedEx is rolling the dice with low odds of breaking even.

 

[martin9]

Paying for insurance is paying the shipping company to refund the package price if they damage it. An insurance claim should be handled by fedex...not hitting the seller up for $100

 

[BigSkyRambler]

Paying for insurance is paying the shipping company to refund the package price if they damage it. An insurance claim should be handled by fedex...not hitting the seller up for $100

We would work out the details like adults.

 

[BV]

Having dealt with a person who wanted to renegotiate after the fact, I would tell you to return for a refund or pound sand. After you settle the damage with FedEx and get the gun back to the condition it was in when I shipped it, of course. My only response after dealing with one these "adults" will be "I couldn't in good conscience sell you such a piece of manure at any price. Send it back and I'll give you a full refund." That is the cheapest and easiest solution in the long run.

 

[BigSkyRambler]

BV:
I get where you are coming from, but I will not ship this gun back loaded. Period. As a previous respondent noted any accident en route would land in my lap. My time is worth something, and to get this gun unloaded, due to corroded nipples and drums, I will most likely have to disassemble, soak in penetrating oil and put some muscle into loosening them. Then, I have to dig out whatever is behind the balls, if that is what is in barrels, and pull the balls. I suppose I could leave the last step out if the charge(?) is removed/made inert. That is time I should not have to spend. I will know outcome in a few hours and post results for the edification of the group.

 

[FishDFly]

"Do you all think it out if line for me to request a much more significant refund, considering the increased sweat equity to put this gun in the order it should have come? I welcome your input."

Why do folks ask a question that they can answer if they stood in front of a mirror and looked at themselves and asked what is the right thing to do?

 

[Pete G]

The stock damage was on FedEx. The rest on the shop.

I disagree. Damage was caused by improper packing.