Revolutionary War Reproduction Rifles

[kren626]

I am new to muzzleloaders and I am looking into buying a rifle based on rifles used in the Revolutionary War. One of my ancestors was a rifleman that served under George Washington, so trying to honor his service. I have seen been mainly looking at Tradition's or Pedersoli rifles. I'm leaning towards the Pennsylvania rifle over the Kentucky since it has the adjustable rear sights and the Pedersoli version has a longer barrel. I wanted to get people's opinions about those guns (or others) since I know very little about the specifics. Any suggestions are appreciated!

 

[tenngun]

American made rifles usually didn’t have a folding sight at this time.
Kiebler colonial rifle sold as a kit is closest to originals from this time,
During the revolution butt sticks tended to be straighter and wider than the more classic ‘Kentucky rifle’. Those styles tend to reflect the ‘golden age’ federalist time period guns
If you look at the jagar rifle that Pedersoli offers you get closer to an American gun from the revolution, though longer barreled.
No production company offers such a gun except as a kit. Kibler is the easiest to assemble, Track of the Wolf, Pecotonic, sitting Fox, Chambers all offer little bit to lot more complex kits

 

[duca]

Woodsrunner Rifle! Kibler kit

 

[LongWalker]

The rifles from Traditions and Pedersoli "represent" the rifles used in the Revolutionary War the way a pot-bellied 50 year old man in a football jersey wants to think he "represents" an NFL player: definitely not the same thing.

Given the headaches I've been having with the stock on a Kibler Colonial kit, I'd suggest you look elsewhere unless you can select the stock yourself. Jim Chambers offers several kits that fit the goal of a rifle representative of a Revolutionary War rifle Jim Chambers Flintlocks Many custom makers could build a rifle that would suit, and you can often find a good deal on used custom rifles built in the style of pre-Rev War/Revolutionary-era rifles.

 

[Tumbledown]

Traditions rifles are more representative of the 1810-1830 era.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

I am new to muzzleloaders and I am looking into buying a rifle based on rifles used in the Revolutionary War. One of my ancestors was a rifleman that served under George Washington, so trying to honor his service. I have seen been mainly looking at Tradition's or Pedersoli rifles. I'm leaning towards the Pennsylvania rifle over the Kentucky since it has the adjustable rear sights and the Pedersoli version has a longer barrel. I wanted to get people's opinions about those guns (or others) since I know very little about the specifics. Any suggestions are appreciated!

Of the 2 rifles your looking at they didn't exist until well after the revolution. The question is how much are you prepared to spend on a correct period rifle? Both Jim Kibler and Jim Chambers have KITS that would be correct for that time period. If you are wanting a finished rifle both Kibler or Chambers can get you set up with A finished rifle but your looking at probably close to $3000.00 total.

 

[FlinterNick]

Well there’s a few arguments to be made about rifles used during the revolutionary war, some points to consider.

1. There were no standard rifles on the american side, standardized military rifles were not introduced until the 1790’s and even then they were contracted out.

2. I would focus on the history of the american long rifle and the era that the revolutionary war fits into, same with french and Indian war.

3. The debate as to how much rifles were actually used is a long winded one, one thing i can say is that they were used however, smoothbores were used in equal numbers in american sharp shooter units. Example, Daniel Boone preferred to trek with his smoothbore.

4. The British had more rifles that the Americans, and better ones. British and Hessian rifles of the period were state of the art, and designed as weapons of war, american rifles were hunting tools.

5. Rifles owned by militia and continentals were often left at home where they were safe, this was so because they were expensive items, it took up to a years wages for a decent long rifle.

6. Your typical era of the long rifle that fits into the revolutionary war period is 1760-1770, absolutely not a KILLDEAR. These rifles used a variety of locks, many were English made and shipped over. American locks or Siler locks in the french tulle style could either be double or single bridled, naturally a double bridle lock would have been the latest upgrade of the era.

Lastly, if you intend on re-enacting with a long rifle, I’d make sure it’s a high caliber, 54-62. Dumping blank round powder without ramming down a small bore rifle can be problematic.

The Colonial Long Rifle by Kibler is a good option, nobody would really argue with you as to its authenticity of the era even though it does have some characteristics that don’t fit the era.

Jim Chambers Isaac Haines Rifle, smooth rifle and early York rifles are also good options as are any of the earlier patterns some of the later 1770 patterns are questionable for the era but i don’t think it matters much. Earlier patterns such as an Americanized Jaeger would have larger bores.

 

[PathfinderNC]

The rifles from Traditions and Pedersoli "represent" the rifles used in the Revolutionary War the way a pot-bellied 50 year old man in a football jersey wants to think he "represents" an NFL player: definitely not the same thing.

Given the headaches I've been having with the stock on a Kibler Colonial kit, I'd suggest you look elsewhere unless you can select the stock yourself. Jim Chambers offers several kits that fit the goal of a rifle representative of a Revolutionary War rifle Jim Chambers Flintlocks Many custom makers could build a rifle that would suit, and you can often find a good deal on used custom rifles built in the style of pre-Rev War/Revolutionary-era rifles.

I would suggest the Kibler Colonial or Woodsrunner for the time period the OP is interested in.
If you’re “having headaches” with your Kibler Colonial kit stock, unless it’s a product defect ( which is strongly unlikely and you should contact Jim!) then it’s an issue of one’s basic skill set.

 

[James Kibler]

The rifles from Traditions and Pedersoli "represent" the rifles used in the Revolutionary War the way a pot-bellied 50 year old man in a football jersey wants to think he "represents" an NFL player: definitely not the same thing.

Given the headaches I've been having with the stock on a Kibler Colonial kit, I'd suggest you look elsewhere unless you can select the stock yourself. Jim Chambers offers several kits that fit the goal of a rifle representative of a Revolutionary War rifle Jim Chambers Flintlocks Many custom makers could build a rifle that would suit, and you can often find a good deal on used custom rifles built in the style of pre-Rev War/Revolutionary-era rifles.

Give me a call and we’ll be happy to help you work through your issues. If something isn’t right, we’ll make sure it is.

Heck, we’ve had customers struggle and I’ve suggested they return the kit. I’ve then assembled it at no charge.

If there is a problem, be sure we’ll make it right.

Jim

 

[duca]

The rifles from Traditions and Pedersoli "represent" the rifles used in the Revolutionary War the way a pot-bellied 50 year old man in a football jersey wants to think he "represents" an NFL player: definitely not the same thing.

Given the headaches I've been having with the stock on a Kibler Colonial kit, I'd suggest you look elsewhere unless you can select the stock yourself. Jim Chambers offers several kits that fit the goal of a rifle representative of a Revolutionary War rifle Jim Chambers Flintlocks Many custom makers could build a rifle that would suit, and you can often find a good deal on used custom rifles built in the style of pre-Rev War/Revolutionary-era rifles.

What kind of headaches are u having with the Kibler kit???? It’s Fool proof!!

 

[kren626]

Thanks everyone for your help, I'm glad I checked in before buying anything!

 

[LongWalker]

If you’re “having headaches” with your Kibler Colonial kit stock, unless it’s a product defect ( which is strongly unlikely and you should contact Jim!) then it’s an issue of one’s basic skill set.

My "basic skill set" has enabled me to stock 40+ long guns and 5-10 pistols from the plank; perhaps the problem lies elsewhere.

Give me a call and we’ll be happy to help you work through your issues. If something isn’t right, we’ll make sure it is.

Heck, we’ve had customers struggle and I’ve suggested they return the kit. I’ve then assembled it at no charge.

If there is a problem, be sure we’ll make it right.

Jim

Due to hearing loss, I don't use a phone. I'll send a PM in a couple minutes.

 

[PathfinderNC]

My "basic skill set" has enabled me to stock 40+ long guns and 5-10 pistols from the plank; perhaps the problem lies elsewhere.

Can't imagine the 'headaches' from a Kibler kit even more so. Anyway good that you'll contact Jim.

 

[The Damned Yankee]

I am new to muzzleloaders and I am looking into buying a rifle based on rifles used in the Revolutionary War. One of my ancestors was a rifleman that served under George Washington, so trying to honor his service. I have seen been mainly looking at Tradition's or Pedersoli rifles. I'm leaning towards the Pennsylvania rifle over the Kentucky since it has the adjustable rear sights and the Pedersoli version has a longer barrel. I wanted to get people's opinions about those guns (or others) since I know very little about the specifics. Any suggestions are appreciated!

kren626, There is no cheap solution to acquiring a good flintlock rifle. If you go cheap (Traditions/ Pedersoli) you will not be satisfied and end up buying another gun later. I see this over and over with guys I teach and compatriots in the SAR. I'm guilty of it myself (34 yrs ago).
First thing is research. Know what the gun you want is suppose to be. The fancy brass 4 piece, pierced and engraved patch boxes and silver inlay mountings did not come about until after the Rev War. They are from what is called the golden age 1790 - 1820 and a little beyond.
This book just came out. it is available from Historic Rock Ford Shop | Historic Rock Ford

Another book I recommend is George C. Neumann's "Weapons of the American Revolution" and his "Collector's Encyclopedia"
A new rifle will cost from $3000 to #12000. Thank goodness there are used guns now on the market that can be had for a little less. But be choosey! Make sure it has been well taken care of. Price will depend on gun builder and age.
Start with Track of the Wolf for decent rifles, new and used. Also Dixie Gun Works.
Good hunting, DY

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
There are no mass produced guns or kits that look like rifles used in the Rev War. Depending on you skills and situation some of Jim Chambers would work such as his Edward Marshall and early York rifles. His Mark Silver Virginia rifle would also work. The best bets if you are not experienced making guns are Jim Kibler's colonial and Woodsrunner rifles. They both have features that were common during that period such as wide butts and fairly stout construction. Below are examples of plausible Rev War period guns that I have built. They demonstrate many of the characteristics we think of as colonial and Rev War.

With regard to the book on the display at Rock Ford Plantation, the photos and selection of guns is excellent and mostly useful for understanding these early rifles. Not all however, the Peter Berry and Rupp rifles are almost certainly not Rev War guns. In addition, there are egregious mistakes and distortions in some of the text so take a lot of it with a grain of salt. For example, there were no rifles used by Americans at Bunker Hill and Loyalist troops at King's Mountain were not equipped with Ferguson rifles.


dave

 

[The Damned Yankee]

With regard to the book on the display at Rock Ford Plantation, the photos and selection of guns is excellent and mostly useful for understanding these early rifles. Not all however, the Peter Berry and Rupp rifles are almost certainly not Rev War guns. In addition, there are egregious mistakes and distortions in some of the text so take a lot of it with a grain of salt. For example, there were no rifles used by Americans at Bunker Hill and Loyalist troops at King's Mountain were not equipped with Ferguson rifles.

Thanks Dave for confirming what I was thinking. This book like most others was made to WOW so it would sell. So of course they used the most extravagant examples they could find. Also the book lacks solid provenance of actual placement of these guns in the Rev War. Most is speculation. Most guns are widely dated which is common when dating antiques. With all that said, it does give someone a starting point for researching what type of gun they may be in search of. But then again, if they will go cheap on a rifle, they will not spend $80 on a book!
I really like your Jaeger!
DY

 

[dave_person]

Hi DY,
It is unfortunate about the book because the photos are great and the selection of guns is as well. The first rifle I posted above is inspired by the unnamed Christian's Spring rifle shown in the book. The third gun is a copy of the Edward Marshall rifle also shown in the book. Contrary to the book, Marshall probably did not carry any rifle with him during his 62-mile fast walk/run. The path was quietly prepared prior to the event and the whole walking purchase was a scam on the Delaware Indians perpetuated by the sons of William Penn. The book's premise is that Lancaster rifle makers helped win the revolution. An irony not discussed in the book is that in 1775-76 Pennsylvania and the Continental Army were desperate for muskets with bayonets, not rifles. State and army officials pleaded, coerced, threatened, bribed, and ordered the Lancaster gunsmiths to stop making rifles and make muskets. The gunsmiths made promises and signed contracts to do so. They produced none. When inspectors arrived to see how musket production was going, they found the gunsmiths still making rifles and no muskets. The reason: they could make much more money building rifles. Scott Gordon, a professor of history at Lehigh University just published a paper in the Journal of the PA Historical Society describing how PA was so desperate for arms they confiscated them from not only loyalists but also citizens supporting the revolution but who could not serve in the army or would not because of religious reasons. They essentially disarmed the citizens not directly serving in the army.

dave

 

[TFoley]

My "basic skill set" has enabled me to stock 40+ long guns and 5-10 pistols from the plank; perhaps the problem lies elsewhere.


Due to hearing loss, I don't use a phone. I'll send a PM in a couple minutes.

Some folks here can build a live steam locomotive from scratch, or make a violin. Others can make truly beautiful furniture that is fit to grace even the White House. They are rare birds indeed. So you saying that you have a 'basic skill set' and then tell us about making so many stocks from scratch, just as though it's something that anybody can just sit down and do, makes those of us who can't do it appear to be ten-thumbed clods.

Talking down to those of us less handy than you, and suggesting that they might have other issues that prevent them from sharing your level of skills, does you no favours, Sir.

 

[TFoley]

To the OP - watch 'The Patriot' movie, and note the style of the rifles used by the 'hero' in the ambush on the British column. They represent what a Revolutionary war rifle looked like - made by a well-known poster on this very forum.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

Hi DY,
It is unfortunate about the book because the photos are great and the selection of guns is as well. The first rifle I posted above is inspired by the unnamed Christian's Spring rifle shown in the book. The third gun is a copy of the Edward Marshall rifle also shown in the book. Contrary to the book, Marshall probably did not carry any rifle with him during his 62-mile fast walk/run. The path was quietly prepared prior to the event and the whole walking purchase was a scam on the Delaware Indians perpetuated by the sons of William Penn. The book's premise is that Lancaster rifle makers helped win the revolution. An irony not discussed in the book is that in 1775-76 Pennsylvania and the Continental Army were desperate for muskets with bayonets, not rifles. State and army officials pleaded, coerced, threatened, bribed, and ordered the Lancaster gunsmiths to stop making rifles and make muskets. The gunsmiths made promises and signed contracts to do so. They produced none. When inspectors arrived to see how musket production was going, they found the gunsmiths still making rifles and no muskets. The reason: they could make much more money building rifles. Scott Gordon, a professor of history at Lehigh University just published a paper in the Journal of the PA Historical Society describing how PA was so desperate for arms they confiscated them from not only loyalists but also citizens supporting the revolution but who could not serve in the army or would not because of religious reasons. They essentially disarmed the citizens not directly serving in the army.

dave

Considering there is more work involved in making rifles than muskets I don't think the gunsmiths made more money building rifles. If they continued to make rifles there was obviously a demand for them and the customer buying a rifle actualy paid for them. You see a lot of stories about people who supplied goods or services to the army and the ordeal they then went through to get paid for what they supplied.