revolver bullets----v

[Desperate Lee]

The Lee hand press no. I'm using a new Lee Classic Cast which has a 1 1\4 dia ram. Takes a pretty stout press to go from .490 down to .452. Deffanitely easier to just buy the Hornady 200 grainers and form the base then size to .452 dia. Actually my chambers are .448 to .449 dia. Need to order a Lee .450 sizer. Plenty of friction fit when loading. Just a toy to me. Will mostly use in my 10" single shot pistol i built. Thats my small hunter. The little po po is still sitting. The little women is not in the mood yet. Once i start shooting getting ready for deer season she'll perk up. LOL

 

[Rifleman1776]

My bp pistol shooting is less than some of the serious pistoleers here. But, I have shot a Colt-Colt Navy .36 and a Ruger Old Army quite a bit. The ROA was used for years in competition and was the only handgun I owned for a long time and, thusly, was my personal home defense gun also. Trying to decide on most effective loads I did some highly scientific testing with it. I shot up an old stump. Using soft lead bullets with a 'sorta' hollow point made for the ROA (probably a .457") they just punched a hole into the stump. Using a soft lead .457" round ball they blasted vicious chunks out of the wood. More powder can be loaded into the cylinder using a round ball than with the bullet. I believe the increase in velocity is what made the round ball a much more effective projectile. My opinion is the bullet thing is wuthluss for a low velocity bp pistol.

 

[rodwha]

My bp pistol shooting is less than some of the serious pistoleers here. But, I have shot a Colt-Colt Navy .36 and a Ruger Old Army quite a bit. The ROA was used for years in competition and was the only handgun I owned for a long time and, thusly, was my personal home defense gun also. Trying to decide on most effective loads I did some highly scientific testing with it. I shot up an old stump. Using soft lead bullets with a 'sorta' hollow point made for the ROA (probably a .457") they just punched a hole into the stump. Using a soft lead .457" round ball they blasted vicious chunks out of the wood. More powder can be loaded into the cylinder using a round ball than with the bullet. I believe the increase in velocity is what made the round ball a much more effective projectile. My opinion is the bullet thing is wuthluss for a low velocity bp pistol.

I’d take a wide meplat bullet over a ball every time. In the few instances we see someone post a video of a ball vs gel from a handgun it creates a very long wound track that appears roughly diameter sized. We know that a wide meplat creates over caliber sized holes and the makers (Beartooth Bullets) of hard lead bullets intended for handgun hunting, often hogs, posted a chart for their offerings:



My custom 195 grn WFN bullet is only .460” long or roughly a ball so it takes up little, if any, powder space. And the meplat is 0.375” or ~83%. My Pietta NMA favors a weighed 33 grns of 3F Olde E and 38 in the ROA. Each has a little leftover capacity but these powder charges proved more accurate, though I have a new powder measure so these weights might change a little as I only increased by 5 grns at a time and this one I can halve that.

These two guns have the same favored loads despite the projectile so a ball would use the same. What’s been seen a few times, including by Lyman as it’s included in their published results, that a long bearing surface can generate greater pressures and outpace the lighter ball.

Regardless the NMA should provide roughly standard .45 ACP performance 900-950 FPS. According to that chart the permanent wound track would be more than .833” in diameter. With the Ruger it’s about an inch!

 

[Rifleman1776]

We are treading into a discussion of modern guns. My comments were for and about bp c&b revolvers. I shot modern pistol, mostly .44 magnum for decades. My findings for that were quite different than with the bp pistols.

 

[Desperate Lee]

Well lets stay away from talk on modern guns but since those ballistics are known and well established we can use them for comparison. We can never really reach modern ballistics but if i can take my Rem NMA close to say 45 ACP ballistics then that is all we're doing and that is comparing ballistics. Where i hunt in Brown County Texas i see lots of hogs on my camera. They are increasing yearly. I walk to and from my stands in the dark. All i want is a load in my NMA that at least i have a fighting chance if i come upon a big sow determined to protect her piglets. For that i want as much lead as i can put in her.

 

[Desperate Lee]

Rodwa
Hey buddy can you elaborate on those numbers? I take it first column is width of meplat and are the other numbers width of wound channel at different depths? What about velocities? For my ASP Bealls NMA's i have a couple of Pietta spare cylinders i fitted to them. I may take one and have it bored out to .452 or so to use for my conicals. That may increase the powder capacity some. I want to leave original cylinders alone. Yolla Brad has done this on his NMA and had good results. He is on another forum with Omnivore.
DL

 

[nkbj]

With any one piece you have to do your own testing to make it do what you're trying to accomplish. Doesn't matter whether it's accuracy or penetration or splatter. Your bullet choices, powder charges, loading technique, nipple types, everything makes a difference.

 

[rodwha]

We are treading into a discussion of modern guns. My comments were for and about bp c&b revolvers. I shot modern pistol, mostly .44 magnum for decades. My findings for that were quite different than with the bp pistols.

No we aren’t. Everything except for the design of the bullet nose is traditional. And a wide meplat was used in rifle conicals so it wasn’t really new then either.

However in modern times we’ve seen what that design does in animals. In essence it’s between that of a FMJ or RB and a HP with the damage and penetration being between the two.

Naturally there’s a difference between a BP revolver and a modern magnum. And naturally there’s a big difference in what will happen if you use any other bullet design in them. It’s been shown for decades that wide meplats don’t need speed to do their deed.

 

[rodwha]

Rodwa
Hey buddy can you elaborate on those numbers? I take it first column is width of meplat and are the other numbers width of wound channel at different depths? What about velocities? For my ASP Bealls NMA's i have a couple of Pietta spare cylinders i fitted to them. I may take one and have it bored out to .452 or so to use for my conicals. That may increase the powder capacity some. I want to leave original cylinders alone. Yolla Brad has done this on his NMA and had good results. He is on another forum with Omnivore.
DL

Oops! I had redone that snap shot as it wasn’t showing the base of the list. I didn’t look to ensure the top info was present. Your assumptions were spot on though. Here’s the original pic:



Wide meplats do big things even at very low velocities. Those velocities wouldn’t produce much if it were a HP or RN/RB type projectile commonly used.

 

[rodwha]

I may take one and have it bored out to .452 or so to use for my conicals. That may increase the powder capacity some.

Is the reaming something you’d do yourself or send out to be done?

It was pointed out to me that a Brownells hand reamer would work (I don’t have a press), but then recently had someone say it’s easy to do it wrong and mess it up. It’s been reamed to .449”. The pilots can’t handle a standard .446” Pietta chamber though, which has made me hesitant (I’d like it to continue to be useful - otherwise I may as well pay to have it done). Should work for an Uberti though.

I’ve wondered what deepening does to it’s favored load. As it stands it found 30 grns “volume” (33 grns weight) no matter what 3 projectiles I used. Does it change that? Seems the bottoms of my chambers don’t go straight-walled all the way down, nor do they quite reach the nipples, much like with the ROA, which can be sent out to gain 5-10 grns.

 

[Badgerfarm]

Travers Tool has a tool called a ball hone and it just so happens that they make one in the range of the bores that you are talking about. Chucked up in a drill with some cutting oil will make quick work of the honing and there's no need to send any parts out to be worked on. While you are at it a few pin gauges in the range that you will be working in are very handy plus they don't cost much to have a small set ranging from .446 to .450 or larger. If you just want to open up the mouth of the chamber cut a small plug of dowel rod as a spacer and you can vary the depth of your chamber work. I've opened up the chambers on nearly every C&B revolver that I have to more closely match the bore diameter of the barrel with excellent results. An inexpensive forcing cone tool will help with accuracy as well. The factories don't take a lot of time to finely polish the forcing cones on their barrels and it makes a huge difference. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Desperate Lee]

Well hello there Badgerfarm. Havent talk to you since i got all those single shot barrels and stocks and misc parts. How you been doing my friend? Had any luck with the ASM '58 NMA i traded you? Sometimes i wish i had it back but life moves on.
DL

 

[Badgerfarm]

I'm doing OK. How have you been doing? I'm getting ready for another surgery on my spine to repair some damage I hope. The pain has been over the top this time. I got '58 out the other day to check it over. I'm getting ready to order another trigger for it and a few other odds and ends to have on hand. I think when I get healed up some it's going to be a good one. I'll rework the chambers after I slug the barrel and rework the forcing cone. I know what you mean. I guess we can't keep all of them. It's fun to try though.

 

[Desperate Lee]

Got mine fixed years ago. Funny the stuff you do when your young and stupid. Then you pay for it the rest of your life, but hey this is about bullets and BP weapons not personal injuries.
I need time to work on my remaining '58s. Need to work on them spare cylinders for conicals.

 

[Badgerfarm]

That's right I got off topic a little. Keep us posted on your progress with the conical work.

 

[RjSixgun]

RjSixgun found this on another forum. Just what you wanted i do believe.
Turbo1889
Bullet master
Based on my experience if you want a ballett mold that will work as intended for a muzzle loader with a slow twist rifling that is loaded naked without a patch and engraves in the rifling this is how to make the mold:

Where:

G = The major groove diameter of your gun. Tolerances should be on the negative side for ease of loading with a fowled bore.
B = The minor bore diameter of your gun. Tolerances should be either on the plus side or split equally. You want the heal to be a snug press fit in the muzzle but you don't want it so tight you can't press it into the muzzle with just thumb pressure.

Use a snug fitting thick felt/fiber wad impregnated with lube between the top of the powder and the ballett to provide the lube and keep fowling soft and cast the ballets out of dead soft pure lead and they work great if properly dimensioned to fit the gun.

Yes that's what Im talking about!!! thanks!
I was also looking at the Lee REALs in 45 as an option for the 1858s that I have.

 

[Bad Karma]

Is the reaming something you’d do yourself or send out to be done?

It was pointed out to me that a Brownells hand reamer would work (I don’t have a press), but then recently had someone say it’s easy to do it wrong and mess it up. It’s been reamed to .449”. The pilots can’t handle a standard .446” Pietta chamber though, which has made me hesitant (I’d like it to continue to be useful - otherwise I may as well pay to have it done). Should work for an Uberti though.

I’ve wondered what deepening does to it’s favored load. As it stands it found 30 grns “volume” (33 grns weight) no matter what 3 projectiles I used. Does it change that? Seems the bottoms of my chambers don’t go straight-walled all the way down, nor do they quite reach the nipples, much like with the ROA, which can be sent out to gain 5-10 grns.

eBay has a ball hone in 120 grit by 1/2” and another in 320 grit. I have a spare cylinder and pin gages... I’ll let you know how it goes.

 

[Desperate Lee]

eBay has a ball hone in 120 grit by 1/2” and another in 320 grit. I have a spare cylinder and pin gages... I’ll let you know how it goes.

Are you doing this on a Colt or Remmy? A 44 cal? What are you trying to open it up to? All cylinders or just one to play with right now? Keep me informed. Thanks
DL

 

[Bad Karma]

I’ve got a couple cylinders, one for a Pietta 1873 which I don’t own or have any interest in owning, the other is an 1860 uberti cylinder. Both .44 and just for playing around with. The Pietta cylinder is my test bed for learning the technique. The Uberti will be fitted to a frame for testing the concept.

Both came my way in trades so they’re essentially free. Am I the only one who has ended up with whole boxes of weird stuff that’s not particularly valuable but too good to throw out?

 

[Desperate Lee]

I’ve got a couple cylinders, one for a Pietta 1873 which I don’t own or have any interest in owning, the other is an 1860 uberti cylinder. Both .44 and just for playing around with. The Pietta cylinder is my test bed for learning the technique. The Uberti will be fitted to a frame for testing the concept.

Both came my way in trades so they’re essentially free. Am I the only one who has ended up with whole boxes of weird stuff that’s not particularly valuable but too good to throw out?

Duh huh no.

I’ve got a couple cylinders, one for a Pietta 1873 which I don’t own or have any interest in owning, the other is an 1860 uberti cylinder. Both .44 and just for playing around with. The Pietta cylinder is my test bed for learning the technique. The Uberti will be fitted to a frame for testing the concept.

Both came my way in trades so they’re essentially free. Am I the only one who has ended up with whole boxes of weird stuff that’s not particularly valuable but too good to throw out?

No not quite. Observe my jar head friend.