Revolver ID Please :-)

[No_1_U_Know]

I inherited several firearms from Dad. Among them is this piece, which I used to shoot as a kid. I had thought it was a repop, but I've been told by someone that it is original.

Thanks!!

N1UK

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Well, it would appear to be an 1858 Remington, but I was not aware of any made with a short barrel. What caliber is it? Apparently, some .36's were made with a 5 1/5" barrel.

 

[No_1_U_Know]

Well, it would appear to be an 1858 Remington, but I was not aware of any made with a short barrel. What caliber is it? Apparently, some .36's were made with a 5 1/5" barrel.

Sorry... I should have included something for scale. This is about 3/5 the size of a .44 caliber "New Model Army". I have one of those too. Thought I had a pic of them together but cant find it.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Again, what is the caliber?

 

[No_1_U_Know]

Again, what is the caliber?

Sorry...

Somewhere in the .36 to .38 neighborhood

 

[bang]

Rem na sheriff?

 

[Zonie]

That pistol is a Remington New Model Police Revolver.

They were made in 1865- 1873 with a total production of around 18000. (That number includes some that were modified for cartridges).
The complete barrel markings should say,

" PATENTED SEPT. 14, 1858 MARCH 17, 1863
E.REMINGTON & SONS, ILION, NEW YORK
NEW MODEL"

This pistol was made to compete with the Colt 1862 Police Revolver and the Pocket Navy so it uses a smaller frame than the larger ARMY and NAVY revolver.
It is a .36 caliber gun with a 5 shot cylinder.

In 2007 when my "FLAYDERMAN'S GUIDE TO ANTIQUE AMERICAN FIREARMS" was printed it was valued at $475 in "good" condition and $1200 in "fine" condition.

Due to inflation that would be $658 and $1662 in 2019 US dollars.

I'm not sure about the pinkish colored frame. Flayderman's Guide says some of these pistols were nickle plated all over, some with a nickle plated frame and the rest were blued all over.

The color reminds me very much of the pump slide guide on my Remington 870 Wingmaster. It came from the factory with a pinkish tinge to it although the rest of the steel parts are blued.

 

[8 BORE]

Is that a brass frame with over 100 years of patina ?

 

[Zonie]

No. Although Remington made a brass framed pocket pistol in .31 caliber all of the other guns they made had steel frames.
The brass trigger guard is an example of a aged brass look.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

That pistol is a Remington New Model Police Revolver.

They were made in 1865- 1873 with a total production of around 18000. (That number includes some that were modified for cartridges).
The complete barrel markings should say,

" PATENTED SEPT. 14, 1858 MARCH 17, 1863
E.REMINGTON & SONS, ILION, NEW YORK
NEW MODEL"

This pistol was made to compete with the Colt 1862 Police Revolver and the Pocket Navy so it uses a smaller frame than the larger ARMY and NAVY revolver.
It is a .36 caliber gun with a 5 shot cylinder.

In 2007 when my "FLAYDERMAN'S GUIDE TO ANTIQUE AMERICAN FIREARMS" was printed it was valued at $475 in "good" condition and $1200 in "fine" condition.

Due to inflation that would be $658 and $1662 in 2019 US dollars.

I'm not sure about the pinkish colored frame. Flayderman's Guide says some of these pistols were nickle plated all over, some with a nickle plated frame and the rest were blued all over.

The color reminds me very much of the pump slide guide on my Remington 870 Wingmaster. It came from the factory with a pinkish tinge to it although the rest of the steel parts are blued.

Well done! I was coming up empty.

 

[bud in pa]

Could that be copper plating? I know that when they used to chrome plate truck rims they would copper plate them. Could it be the same foe nickel plating?

 

[8 BORE]

That pistol is a Remington New Model Police Revolver.

They were made in 1865- 1873 with a total production of around 18000. (That number includes some that were modified for cartridges).
The complete barrel markings should say,

" PATENTED SEPT. 14, 1858 MARCH 17, 1863
E.REMINGTON & SONS, ILION, NEW YORK
NEW MODEL"

This pistol was made to compete with the Colt 1862 Police Revolver and the Pocket Navy so it uses a smaller frame than the larger ARMY and NAVY revolver.
It is a .36 caliber gun with a 5 shot cylinder.

In 2007 when my "FLAYDERMAN'S GUIDE TO ANTIQUE AMERICAN FIREARMS" was printed it was valued at $475 in "good" condition and $1200 in "fine" condition.

Due to inflation that would be $658 and $1662 in 2019 US dollars.

I'm not sure about the pinkish colored frame. Flayderman's Guide says some of these pistols were nickle plated all over, some with a nickle plated frame and the rest were blued all over.

The color reminds me very much of the pump slide guide on my Remington 870 Wingmaster. It came from the factory with a pinkish tinge to it although the rest of the steel parts are blued.

That pistol is a Remington New Model Police Revolver.

They were made in 1865- 1873 with a total production of around 18000. (That number includes some that were modified for cartridges).
The complete barrel markings should say,

" PATENTED SEPT. 14, 1858 MARCH 17, 1863
E.REMINGTON & SONS, ILION, NEW YORK
NEW MODEL"

This pistol was made to compete with the Colt 1862 Police Revolver and the Pocket Navy so it uses a smaller frame than the larger ARMY and NAVY revolver.
It is a .36 caliber gun with a 5 shot cylinder.

In 2007 when my "FLAYDERMAN'S GUIDE TO ANTIQUE AMERICAN FIREARMS" was printed it was valued at $475 in "good" condition and $1200 in "fine" condition.

Due to inflation that would be $658 and $1662 in 2019 US dollars.

I'm not sure about the pinkish colored frame. Flayderman's Guide says some of these pistols were nickle plated all over, some with a nickle plated frame and the rest were blued all over.

The color reminds me very much of the pump slide guide on my Remington 870 Wingmaster. It came from the factory with a pinkish tinge to it although the rest of the steel parts are blued.

Maybe it is some type of patina pinkish Cerakote.

 

[hawkeye2]

"I'm not sure about the pinkish colored frame. Flayderman's Guide says some of these pistols were nickle plated all over, some with a nickle plated frame and the rest were blued all over.

The color reminds me very much of the pump slide guide on my Remington 870 Wingmaster. It came from the factory with a pinkish tinge to it although the rest of the steel parts are blued." (Quoting Zonie)

The frame color is usually refered to as plum. As evidenced by the extensive but shallow pitting all over the gun was reblued at some time and whoever did it did an excelent job of polishing by not dishing out the screw holes or rounding the corners. If you expand the photo you will see an area around the front sight that was not polished before rebluing (look closely at the corners of the barrel flats there and the flat immediately behind the sight). For some reason the frame came out plum and I'm not experienced enough with blueing to explain why however I do have 2 '58 Remingtons by Euroarms that have an identical frame color which is original to both guns.

 

[desi23]

The frame color is usually refered to as plum. As evidenced by the extensive but shallow pitting all over the gun was reblued at some time and whoever did it did an excelent job of polishing by not dishing out the screw holes or rounding the corners. If you expand the photo you will see an area around the front sight that was not polished before rebluing (look closely at the corners of the barrel flats there and the flat immediately behind the sight). For some reason the frame came out plum and I'm not experienced enough with blueing to explain why however I do have 2 '58 Remingtons by Euroarms that have an identical frame color which is original to both guns.

The plum color is due to the type of steel (chrome or nickel content) and the actual shade of plum/purple can vary as well due to the bluing temperature when doing hot salts bluing. At least that is what various sources claim and a gunsmith friend who specializes in re-finishing work told me pretty much the same years ago. He said manufacturers used different grades of steel in different parts of the guns and some would always go plum. Running the bluing tank at a different temp would sometimes get the plum parts dark enough to blend a little better but they would still have a purple tint

 

[bubba.50]

If you reblue cast steel it will often come out with the plum color. And can come from the factory that way as can be evidenced by some Ruger parts & the magazine loop on Remington 870’s & 1100’s.

 

[No_1_U_Know]

Thanks everyone! I appreciate all of the information and discussion. Most of this agrees with input I've gotten elsewhere, including the info on metal alloy and its impact on final bluing color.

 

[RedFeather]

I've been told the reddish cast is due to the amount of iron in the alloy. Often seen on parts of old .22's.

 

[Zonie]

For what it's worth, I have color tinted and tempered a number of steel parts and one of the colors the surfaces passes thru on its way to a rich blue as it heats up is a similar purple/plumb color.

According to one source, the temperatures are: Yellow 430, Straw 470, Brown 500, Purple 540, Blue 570. All temperatures are °F.

 

[victorio1sw]

I inherited several firearms from Dad. Among them is this piece, which I used to shoot as a kid. I had thought it was a repop, but I've been told by someone that it is original.

Thanks!!

N1UK

As for the off-color frame, be aware that these Remington revolvers were made with cast iron frames. Cast iron contains about 2% carbon, which leaves notch-shaped voids throughout. Tensile strength is relatively poor, but this metal is highly machinable. That is why Remington liked cast iron frames, as it reduced machining time and total cost. The pressure bearing parts, like the barrel and cylinder, were made with plain carbon steel having no more than about 0.5% carbon. I can only guess that whatever "bluing" process was used, it reacted differently on the frame and the steel parts (barrel, cylinder, rammer, etc).

Cast iron is definitely brittle. How many Remington O/U Derringers have you seen with cracked hinges? It wouldn't have happened if plain carbon steel had been used. Cast iron also cannot be welded with a plain carbon steel rod, only with an alloy steel rod. After welding with a plain carbon steel rod, by the next day a crack will be seen in the weld area.