Revolver Quit Revolvin'!

[Sham66]

Howdy!

First off, I must preface this question by letting everyone know this is a Palmetto Walker (I know, but ya dance with what brung ya). It has performed decently with 2 issues.
1)After a few shots at the range yesterday, it stopped revolving. Then it would work intermittently sort of. Now at half-cock, the cylinder will spin freely in either direction, but lock in when cocked back. Took it apart for cleaning and still spun freely after reassembly, but then would work for a while. What broke?

2)Problem with ignition on one nipple after 1-2 shots. I pick each nipple before placing a cap and this one will not fire the cap. Try another nipple?

Last question: Should I mess with this one, or see about a Uberti Walker? I have heard so many good things about it here, I feel I am missing something. Or maybe get an 1860.

Thanks!

James

 

[Zonie]

Its just a guess but it might be the spring on the hand that rotates the cylinder.
If it works sometimes and not other times that would be a place to start.

The fact that you said the cylinder will rotate freely in either direction with the hammer at half cock indicates that the hand is not engaging the notches on the back of the cylinder. It should only rotate freely at half cock in the clockwise direction with the gun pointed away from you. It also should be making a clicking sound as it rotates.

Dixie Gunworks gives part number for the Walker as MP0248 for the "hand and spring". The 2005 price was about $8.00.
This hand and spring attaches to the side of the hammer and sticks up thru a slot behind the cylinder. When you get it, ask about installation over in the Builders Bench Forum area and we'll walk you thru what's required.

The nipple sounds like it is short. That would explain it not firing the caps.
Here again, Dixie offers the nipples for the Walker as part number NP0250 for about $2.50 each.

Should you buy a new Uberti Walker? If it were me, I would say no. For about $30 you can have your gun fixed and that includes postage.
I think the "hand and spring" is one of the weak points with the design of all of the Colt guns whether they are made by Uberti or anyone else.

Should you get an 1860?
Now, I know you Texans are big and like your guns bigger but I'm willing to bet that even you would find the 1860 to be about as pointable and easy to carry of a gun as anything you've owned.
Espically after packing that Walker around.

While I have your attention, you might also want to think about a Dance.
Hell no, I don't mean with me! I'm talking about a Dance Brothers .44 caliber C&B revolver.

The Dance Brothers were the only Texas company to make a revolver for the Confederacy. It an iron framed gun that looks somewhat like a Colt except it doesn't have any "recoil shields" behind the cylinder. Because these are lacking, the back side of the cylinder is visable on both sides of the frame. Makes for easy capping and I will go out on a limb by saying that without these recoil shields, there might be less of a chanch of a multiple discharge or chain fire.

Dixie offers a Pietta/Italy manufactured version of this gun for about $270 and it is N/SSA approved so it must be pretty close to the real thing.

 

[mikelange]

Might also want to check the cylinder stop, located in the frame beneath the cylinder. I agree with the diagnosis about the hand and spring, but if the cylinder's spinning freely it sounds like either the stop's worn or the spring that lifts it has bent or broken.

Never shot a Walker. A 1st Dragoon (replica, obviously) is the nearest thing. It's a brute. I don't doubt for an instant the stories about guys running buffalo with these "horse pistols".

 

[biliff]

If the cylinder revolves in either direction at half cock then its definately the handspring. It probably rotates the cylinder some of the time because you are pointing the muzzle down during cocking and gravity is moving the hand forward. As others have pointed out the hand spring is a weak point in the Colt design.
For the non-firing nipple you can always shim it out a few thousands of an inch with a loop of fine copper wire. If that cures the problem then you know you have a short nipple.

 

[Tight_Wad]

I once owned a Uberti 2nd model Dragoon from new and had mis-fire problems from the start. Sent it back to the importer and it turned out there was nothing wrong with the gun - I just wasn't tapping the barrel wedge in far enough. See, the further you tap it in, the closer it brings the barrel forcing cone towards the cylinder face. If there is too big a gap, when you drop the hammer the blow just pushes the whole cylinder forwards until stopped by the barrel; this can cause mis-fires. You can easily get the correct gap by using a auto spark-plug gap feeler gauge. Tap the wedge in until you get a barrel/cylinder gap of around four thou' (0.004"). It was certainly my experience that this helped considerably, but be aware that the gap will open up after a couple of cylinder-fulls of shots. You need to keep an eye on it.

Also, wipe the hammer and hammer well to keep them free from powder fouling - this can also absorb some of the hammer blow if it's allowed to build up too much.

I agree with the above comments re cylinder rotation. I'm sure with a bit of effort you can get the gun shooting reliably; you just need time to get to know its foibles!

Tight Wad

 

[jdixon]

I have a Uberti Walker - shoots very well, very accurate (once I filed the heck out of the hammer nose to get the POA down to earth). Only things I can add to what has already been stated, all good points, is that this design is prone to getting cap fragments hung up in its action. The smallest chunk of copper cap in the right place will bind the gun up to where it will not move. Sometimes these pieces are so small you don't see them when they fall out as you are taking the cylinder out to find out what the problem is. Another thought, are you certain that when you tore it down, you put it back together correctly? Not being smart here, I have done this a few times. The sear & bolt spring put in upside down for instance will cause problems, and on some guns it will go in that way and look correct. If you think this might be a problem, referr to an exploded view drawing when putting it back together - a good one can be found @ [url] http://www.coltparts.com/pt_wkr.html[/url]

 

[Bob Riegl]

The previous statements are quite correct---whether or not you can get parts for the Palmetto---that's another story. I have found that when I get another repro---often as not the nipples are oversized for a #11---this is why the second hit on that nipple is required---the first hit seats the cap against the nipple and the second hit sets it off. I usually remove all nipples and proceed to measure the fit of the #11 cap and it they are too large I chuck them into my Unimat Lathe and carefully file the nipple until the cap fits easily, yet snugly. I am careful not to put pressure on the cap when seating them, contrary to some opinions they will go off and cause much grief. :hatsoff:

 

[Sham66]

Howdy!

Thanks for all of these great comments and suggestions. One thing I have not done is a complete dissasembly and cleaning of the trigger and hammer mechanisms. I will start there and be careful. I have shot Pyrodex and switched to Goex 3f Pinnacle lately. I do have an extra set of nipples so I will test with those also. And I will watch the wedge placement. Also, this was a kit and my bluing skills are not good. I may try again with Blue Wonder after the first of the year.

Thanks again.

James

 

[echo89]

Sham, it is my experience (not as great as some here) that no matter who the mnf'r is, you are going to have roughly the same sets of problems with the repro's. The common design is still the original Colt from 1847, 1851, etc. I own a Palmetto and owned a Uberti Walker, and the problems I've had mirror the ones I've seen and heard from the other owners, Uberti, Colt, etc. The only significant difference I have noticed is finish quality.

 

[Musketeer]

I think the "hand and spring" is one of the weak points with the design of all of the Colt guns whether they are made by Uberti or anyone else.

Indeed. I have an Uberti 3rd model Dragoon and that was the first thing to go on it (the hand spring). No problems so far on my Uberti 1860, though I would think that this particular problem may be more common to models like the Walker and Dragoon that have really big, heavy cylinders. :hmm:

 

[Zonie]

sham66: When you disassemble your Walker keep an eye out for a little bent piece of very thin metal.

It is about 1/16 wide X 5/8 long and about .015 thick. If it falls out, that is the spring for the hand.

On some of these guns, they just press the spring into the slot on the backside of the hand (the side oposite the pointed end that pushes on the cylinder ratchet).
If you find this spring, check out the slot on the hand. If it still has part of the spring in it, the spring broke off. If the slot for the spring is empty, you could epoxy the spring back in place.
It is positioned in a way that would gently sweep aft and then hook forward a little. The picture shows what I'm trying to say:

 

[JohnnyO]

take it apart and look for this thing[url] http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=1143[/url]

then take a look at[url] http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=1098[/url]

those are what was screwin up on my colt navy when the cylinder would lock and would spin freely on the half cock...also some second piece is the problem with my colt sticking when pulling back the hammer...

 

[JohnnyO]

those are what was screwin up on my colt navy when the cylinder would lock and would spin freely on the half cock...

[url] err...spin[/url] freely on full cock...thats it...

 

[mec]

the hand and spring are often sold together because it's fairly hard to get the spring installed in the hand without breaking something. It is real hard to fit the hand and spring assembly to a revolver. The replacement parts are usually oversize. On my Uberti 60 army and 61 navy, the fitted parts are interchangeable.

This string has a lot of information on assembly and parts replacement:[url] http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=137102[/url]

 

[ValleyForge]

Real interesting....
Maybe the cylinder gap is what's been causing my issues with the 1861 Uberti Colt...I'll have to try futzing (that's the technical term) with it.

 

[Sham66]

Howdy!

Update: After being released from Jury Duty today, I fully disassembled the Walker. When I removed the triggerguard, the spring fell out. Following Zonie's advice, I cleaned everything thoroughly, epoxied the spring in place, and it sounds and works just like it should.
T H A N K S ! !

I appreciate everyone who responded. I learned a lot.

I will put on a new set of nipples before the next shooting session.

James

 

[Zonie]

Sham66: GREAT!! Glad you got it fixed and it didn't cost much at all.

Valley Forge: "...I'll have to try futzing (that's the technical term) with it."

Go ahead and futz with it, but I wouldn't recommend frinkeling with it (as in "The last guy who worked on this sure frinkeled it up!!"
(That's also a very technical term but it's reserved for special cases). :grin:

 

Nipples often need to be fitted for caps. Here's what I do to make sure I have reliable detonation.

Let me warn ya, its not as simple as just replacing the nipple.

Now, many a shooter here will tell you to use BP only. And I agree with them to a certain degree. I have to travel an hour to and an hour from my nearest source of real BP. With Homeland Security requirements, BP sources are drying up and Pyrodex and other substitutes are becoming your only available propellent. So, one needs a hotter source of ignition.

First, make sure the nipple you replace the original with has the proper threads for your gun.

Once the new nipple is installed, quite often your hammer will fall on the cap and nothing happens. The first thing many will tell you to do is to replace your main spring. This may help and again it may not. The most likely cause for this mis-fire is not the mainspring, but an over sized nipple cone.

To cure this problem, you will need masking tape, a power drill, a fine grain knife sharpening stone, dishsoap, a percussion cap and a small amount of water. I generally do this job at the kitchen sink when the ole lady is not at home.

First wrap the threads of the nipple to be honed with masking tape. Two to three wraps should do the trick. Once that is done, chuck the threaded end of the nipple in the power drill. Now put a small amount of dishsoap, mixed with a couple of drops of water, on your stone. Making sure you match the original angle of the cone and with the drill on low, careful not to overheat your nipple, slowly turn the cone side of the nipple on your stone. Don't over do it, keep stopping every so often to use the cap as a guage to ensure a proper fit.

Once you are sure that you have a proper fit, be sure to clean the nipple thoroughly and that the vent is clear of debris. Remove masking tape, dry, oil and install on your gun. I use a little plumber's teflon tape to install mine. If you try this, make sure you don't cover the vent hole.

Repeat five times.

Like I said, it entails a little effort to get it right.

CP