Rifle Recommendation

[J.D.]

I will be using the rifle to punch paper and steel targets at 50 to 75 yards. I would go after small games when I can handle the rifle with ease.

I would like to put money one time on a good rifle instead of spending more money later for upgrades or fixes. Since this will be is my first flintlock rifle, I just want something simple, no carving/inlaid or fancy silver or brass furniture, just a simple and reliable shooter.

Your first flintlock? That's almost like your first amorous encounter with a woman. Once is never enough. :wink:

And as with women, quality is preferred. And the consequences of not seeking quality are the same, except that low quality women are more costly to get rid of.

If you plan to shoot to 75 yards on a regular basis as well as hunting small game, I suggest a 40 or 45 cal. If you plan to deer hunt, a 50 or 54...or larger might be a good choice.

There are several members of this forum that can make about anything you want. Mike Brooks, Chris Immel, Zonie, Roy Stroh, and several others I can't think of at the moment.

I also suggest that you request a Chambers lock, a swamped barrel, and a bit of cast off to make that gun fit properly.

Good luck
J.D.

 

[gunn]

I bought a used smoothbore made by Ray at Sitting Fox. I am so impressed with it that I ordered a new 20 guage smooth bore in left handed flintlock, Virginia style. Ray just informed me that it is ready. I am out of the country now, but it will be home waiting for me when I get there. I don't feel you can go wrong with his guns. Gunn
AUT PAX AUT BELLUM

 

[jimmytheshank]

Post a pic when you get a chance. I'd like to see what he did for you. I have a rifle that he has almost finished, for me as well.

 

[cable]

look at this one [ it is not mine], on the classifieds page; looks nice to me, and reasonably priced,not much more than a commercially made gun, but a bit more interesting and comparatively unique:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/pp-classifieds/showproduct.php/product/2390/cat/9

good luck!

 

[J.D.]

look at this one [ it is not mine], on the classifieds page; looks nice to me, and reasonably priced,not much more than a commercially made gun, but a bit more interesting and comparatively unique:
good luck!

While that rifle appears to be fairly well done, there is really nothing unique about it. It is a pretty common southern mountain style rifle of about circa 1840-50. And while the Siler lock is a quality lock, it is not correct for that style of rifle.

I only have a vague idea of what JMN68 is looking for, but from his description, that isn't it.

Check out the American Historic Services page for excellent photos of original America longrifles of which a couple might date to 1760's. The others date from the 1780's to about 1820, or so.
http://www.americanhistoricservices.com/html/home.html

 

[cable]

true, i didn't mean unique in that sense, i meant as compared to a lyman, or t/c or some of the factory rifles, he mentioned, which can cost nearly as much.

 

[54ball]

You can find a good used rifle really reasonable if you look. The forum classifieds are a great place to start. Also check out the several gun sell sites on the net as most have a Blackpowder section. Suppliers like TOTW offer completed guns for sale. Amature makers are always selling completed guns to start new projects. The bottom line is you can find a completed gun in the style you want if you know where to look.
The big decision is deciding what you want. The era you have chosen is what as refered to as The Golden Age 1790 to about 1830.
In this era were many styles or schools of guns. The Pennysylvania-Kentucky longrifle evolved from the larger caliber wide flat butt rifles of the Revolutuion to the very slim smaller caliber deep cresent butt rifles of the 1820-30 period.
Carving is seen as decoration on the earlier rifles giving way to inlays commonly seen on the later rifles. Plain guns can be found from any era. Though not as common. This could be due to attrition. As I mentioned there are many styles based on location and the maker.
Common styles made today are Lancaster from Lancaster Pennysylvania. Lancasters have a pleasing modern looking comb and buttstock and are the grandaddy of many sub-styles and schools.
Virginia, Virginias are alot like the Lancasters as far as style but are a bit more robust looking. Virginias are often associated as an earlier style by many makers.
Lehighs, Lehighs have the Roman nosed or hump stock comb. On some rifles the Roman nose is very sutle while others its more prominate. They are very striking rifles.
Southern or Southern Mountain, These are the rifles of Appallatia. They include the Tennessees,NC mountain,Gillespie,Bean and many others. They are commonly iron mounted and many have no buttplate. The are very simple working guns that fit your era. Many say that this was the type of rifle Daniel Boone really carried, albeit an early version.
Things to look for in a used flitlock. Make sure it was well cared for. Look for quaility parts like Siler,Chambers and L&R locks. Also look for Rice,Getz,Coletrain and Green Mountain Barrels. The best is Chambers, Siler, Rice,and Getz.

Check out my 1810 era Gillespie I purchased off of the classifieds here for $700. Its in the Photo section of the forums under Gillespie Pictures and update. I just bumped it up.

 

[JMN68]

You can find a good used rifle really reasonable if you look. The forum classifieds are a great place to start. Also check out the several gun sell sites on the net as most have a Blackpowder section. Suppliers like TOTW offer completed guns for sale. Amature makers are always selling completed guns to start new projects. The bottom line is you can find a completed gun in the style you want if you know where to look.
The big decision is deciding what you want. The era you have chosen is what as refered to as The Golden Age 1790 to about 1830.
In this era were many styles or schools of guns. The Pennysylvania-Kentucky longrifle evolved from the larger caliber wide flat butt rifles of the Revolutuion to the very slim smaller caliber deep cresent butt rifles of the 1820-30 period.
Carving is seen as decoration on the earlier rifles giving way to inlays commonly seen on the later rifles. Plain guns can be found from any era. Though not as common. This could be due to attrition. As I mentioned there are many styles based on location and the maker.
Common styles made today are Lancaster from Lancaster Pennysylvania. Lancasters have a pleasing modern looking comb and buttstock and are the grandaddy of many sub-styles and schools.
Virginia, Virginias are alot like the Lancasters as far as style but are a bit more robust looking. Virginias are often associated as an earlier style by many makers.
Lehighs, Lehighs have the Roman nosed or hump stock comb. On some rifles the Roman nose is very sutle while others its more prominate. They are very striking rifles.
Southern or Southern Mountain, These are the rifles of Appallatia. They include the Tennessees,NC mountain,Gillespie,Bean and many others. They are commonly iron mounted and many have no buttplate. The are very simple working guns that fit your era. Many say that this was the type of rifle Daniel Boone really carried, albeit an early version.
Things to look for in a used flitlock. Make sure it was well cared for. Look for quaility parts like Siler,Chambers and L&R locks. Also look for Rice,Getz,Coletrain and Green Mountain Barrels. The best is Chambers, Siler, Rice,and Getz.

Check out my 1810 era Gillespie I purchased off of the classifieds here for $700. Its in the Photo section of the forums under Gillespie Pictures and update. I just bumped it up.

Thank you for a brief break down of the different types of period rifles. I have much to learn about this class of shooting and do not mind picking up a few books here and there about this subject.

I have around 650.00 to spend on a rifle and another 200.00 for supplies and accessories so I really want to spend it wisely. With the skill level of wood working, I should be able to pick up a rifle in the white and have a good gun as an end product.

From the few replies, forum members had mentioned a specific chamber and a swamped barrel. What other specifications can I request when ordering a rifle from a gunsmith like Rustic Arms?

Joe

 

[El Lobo]

I figure I will throw in my two cents' worth. As a relative newcomer to muzzleloading myself, I found it of great value to join up with a local black powder group in my area. I was able to actually handle and shoot a variety of rifles and pistols and the fellows in my club are invaluable sources of information and good advice. My decision as to which rifle to buy was greatly informed by that experience. As good as the information presented in this forum may be, it is still pretty abstract and can't compare to actually lifting a particular longrifle to your shoulder and squeezing that trigger. Good luck to you and good shooting.

 

[Stony]

Hi Joe, to paraphase the Duke from True Grit, "You remind me of me." I started with BP first (Mtn Man type stuff), then tactical, cowboy (BP of course) and now back to BP but only now it's :shocked2: FLINTLOCKS!!! :shocked2: :hatsoff: :thumbsup: :grin:

If I can offer my two cents, I would recommend for now a TC flintlock in either .45 or .50. It will probably be their Hawken model which of course doesn't look like a real Hawken. The reason is that while costing less, the TC is a reliable firearm and will allow you to learn a bit more of the ins and outs of shooting a flintlock. A flintlock is a whole different animial from a Winchester or Marlin. I'm using a flintlock which has blended features of two styles and would be correct for around 1805. Your ideal rifle or smoothbore may change as you learn more about flintlocks and such. I'm planning on getting a Jim Chambers English Gentleman's rifle (hope I got the name right) soon because it looks like the same kind of rifle Gary Cooper used in Unconquered, one of my top ten favorite movies. It would be PC for the French & Indian War period (and any after that). The Jim Chambers rifle will probably take me 2-3 years of saving before I can get it but I will get it. Again, I would strongly suggest you get a TC Hawken Flintlock in either .45 or .50 and shoot the heck out of it. After a few months your ideal flintlock may change or you'll have more money to get what you really want. (You can also sell the TC to help pay for THE rifle.) You have one big advantage I did not have, this forum. It didn't exist when I started shooting but since I've found it, it has been a big help and I check on it almost every day. It has helped me be a better shooter and a big help when I do my range officer duty at my shooting range. I have made up several business cards with helpful hints and number one is this web site. I have had many people tell me that this web site has helped them to become better shooters. Good luck and keep your powder dry!

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I think I'd put the whole $850.00 into the best used rifle that I could find or a rifle in the white. If you feel up to the challenge, you can get a top quality parts set or kit for that money. By the time you get it built, you will have enough money saved up for the things you need to shoot it. This way, you start out with the rifle you want instead of a gun that is merely a stand in. And it is a one of a kind versus a just like thousands of others.
My wife had never fired a gun of any sort until she fired one of mine a few years ago. She fired one of my flintlock fowlers and started hitting targets right away. She doesn't notice any difference between flint and percussion arms now, but finds flintlocks easier to load. No tiny little caps to lose I guess.

 

[Zoar]

I understand the original poster to say small game, NOT deer.

And yes his first flintlock.

Paper punching and small game out to 50 and then out to 75 yards.

$650. Gee can't he get a nice smaller caliber kit from TOW or Dixie for well under that in a small caliber?

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I understand the original poster to say small game, NOT deer.

And yes his first flintlock.

Paper punching and small game out to 50 and then out to 75 yards.

$650. Gee can't he get a nice smaller caliber kit from TOW or Dixie for well under that in a small caliber?

Well, I didn't mention deer, I understand that this is his first flintlock and he wants to target shoot and hunt small game at relatively close range. None of which relates to or is in conflict with my post.
He can get a generic, so-so quality kit from Dixie. It won't have the best components and it won't look much like the old, original guns. The lock in particular will be of inferior quality. A poor flintlock is a miserable thing and is enough to put a man off flintlocks forever.
A parts set from Track costs more and is worth it. Vastly better quality and authenticity. A parts set from Jim Chambers is even better. Either one costs more and is worth more than the stuff Dixie is selling. A fine rifle will be a pleasure long after the price has been forgotten. A cheap, poor rifle is simply best forgotten, but the price will always rankle.

 

[Zoar]

My post was not specific to your post. My post just followed chronologcally your post. I said NOT deer because others (as in plural) had said something to the effect that if he wanted this flintlock for shooting deer...., and I thought the original post was quite clear (target and SMALL game) and yes that makes the low caliber direction certain and it avoids a whole lot of speculation.

(one of the many possible ways one can be misconstrued on forums like this when you hit reply it may or may not be to the very last post but may be a general post to the thread, and/or to a number of posts.)

I hope this clears things up.

 

[JMN68]

I have narrowed the field to an Early Rustic Arms Colonial or Cumberland rifle in the white. I should request for a swamped barrel, chambers lock and in .50 caliber. What else am I missing beside the type of wood?

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Maple is the norm for American longrifles though there were some made from Cherry and other woods. You can get very simple maple, highly figured maple, or anywhere in between. Walnut stocks were primarily found on English rifles and were not common on American longrifles.

If you're a right handed shooter, request a 1/4" cast off if they'll do it. That way when you mount the rifle your eye will already be lined up with the sight (or really close to it) and you won't need to tilt your head over the top of the stock to aim.

I used to do fittings for custom shotguns and 1/4" was pretty close for most people. If you have a particularly wide face (cheekbone to nose) you may need 3/8" to as much as 1/2" cast off. 1/2" cast off is pretty rare though.

Swamped barrel is IMO the most important option you'll want. I have 2 rifles, one with a swamped barrel and one with straight octagon. The longer swamped barrel is night and day better balanced and easier to hold on target than the straight barrel.

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[Stony]

Well Joe, sounds like you decided to make a plunge, not quite as I recommended but still sounds good. I would recommend you get the best grade of maple (suger, tiger striped, curly) that you can afford. When you place your order, if possible let them know that you would like a atock with most of the "curl" showing in the butt - wrist area of the stock. It will not help your shooting one bit but man, the comments you will hear at the range of how good your rifle looks :thumbsup: I would not recommend a patch box at this time. You could always add one later, it may cost more but wait till you see how the stock looks. Good luck and show us some pictures when you get it.

 

[crockett]

Since you are a competitive shooter a 40 caliber could be used in squirrel gun competitions and some states allow a 40 caliber for deer. A 40 caliber is often thought of as highly accurate.

 

[BadHorse]

I have narrowed the field to an Early Rustic Arms Colonial or Cumberland rifle in the white. ?

hey um isnt this the company where you can die of old age before getting all the parts to your rifle?

karwelis

 

[JMN68]

Please enlighten me on this. I would like my first purchase be hassel free and have good cutomer service.

Back to the rifle, smoothbore or rifled barrel ?