Rifle Recommendation

[pdecrosta]

Hi all..

I'm looking for some help choosing a BP rifle. I'd like to stay with something traditional and want a rifle of good quality. My purpose for the rifle would be casual target shooting and working with local Boy Scouts on their rifle merit badge. I don't hunt but do enjoy target shooting with rifles of all types.. I would only want to shoot patched round balls and cannot think of any reason I'd shoot conicals. I had been looking at the Thompson Center Hawken because of the warantee.. unfortunately it's not very traditional looking and I'm concerned about the 1 in 48 twist regarding shooting patched round balls. I also looked at the Lyman GP percussion rifle and thought it was a handsome rifle plus it had a 1 in 60 twist which I thought would be more accurate with the round ball. I have heard some complaints about the Lyman GP being harder to take down for cleaning that the TC. I'd like to get the most rifle for my money.. It's very confusing... Traditions, Cabela's... so many choices. I'm hoping you can take some of the guesswork out of this process and point me in the right direction. Thank you for your time.

 

[mzloder]

Wireman, I've owned several T/C rifles over the years and I've not had any problem shooting round balls with them. Find the right ball-patch-lube-powder combination and you'll be very satisfied with a T/C rifle. I prefer the more traditional look of Renegade model, unfortunately they are out of production now. If you look around you'll find them for sale at a reasonable price, as L just did (54 Renegade caplock!!).

That being said, the Lyman Great Plains rifle is a good choice also and will shoot PRB's accurately all day long! You wouldn't go wrong with either of them. Pick one and go shoot!

Patrick

 

The TC will shoot patched roundballs just fine...never shot the Lyman but I am sure it will to...... :thumbsup:

 

[cowpoke1955]

I have a .54 T/C Hawkens and two .54 Lyman GPRs, one flint and one percussion. The only difference in take down between the two is the T/C has one barrel key and the GPR has two. As for shooting round balls, the GPR is far superior. From a bench I have been able to squeeze out a couple of groups under an inch. I must say that the T/C is superior when it comes to shooting conicals. The GPR is a much more traditional looking rifle with it's 32" barrel (especially if you install the primitive rear sight), stock shape and steel furniture. Since you are with the Scouts, you may want to consider a GPR in kit form (something T/C doesn't offer). Another difference is T/C only offers a .50 caliber and the GPR comes in .50 and .54. Price is another consideration. You can get two GPR kits for the price of one T/C. Check DNR Sports for the best prices on the net: http://www.dnrsports.com/acatalog/D___R_Catalog_Lyman_Muzzleloaders_649.html . Good luck :thumbsup:

 

[mykeal]

I own T/C Hawkens in both .50 and .54 and .54 cal Lyman GPR's in both percussion and flintlock. I consider both to be good examples of the 1830's era plains style rifle in terms of appearance.

Both the T/C and the GPR are more accurate than I am. The GPR's took longer to 'break in' and achieve the same level of accuracy (sub 2 1/2 inch groups at 50 yards from rest) as the T/C Hawken. I only shoot prb's with real black powder in these guns.

The GPR is significantly less expensive as a brand new gun but T/C Hawkens in good used condition are not uncommon and rival the GPR in price. Used T/C Hawkens seem to me to be more plentiful than used GPR's, but I'm not really in the market so that may not be accurate.

As mentioned above you really can't go wrong with either. The GPR kit is a 98% finished kit and you can produce a nice quality hard working rifle in less than 40 hours work with basic tools and amateur skills. There are a couple of quirks that reference to the Gun Builder's Bench on this forum will help you get past.

I notice that availability is not posted on the DNR site, so if you find they're out of stock, Midsouth Shooters Supply claims to have them in stock for very little more than DNR (which I agree is the lowest price for new GPR's on the 'net).

This is really an easy decision because there's no wrong answer.

 

[Zonie]

I see little or no difference between cleaning a TC Hawken or a Lyman Great Plains Rifle.

In fact, the only difference is the Lyman GPR needs to have two barrel wedges removed to remove the barrel from the stock while the TC only has one.

Everything else is the same.

 

[vthompson]

I own a T/C Hawken .50cal rifle and it shoots PRB's just fine. I can hit a 2" circle at 60 yards with it consistantly. As for the looks, I think that the Hawken rifles look great.
Bottom line though, is to try to find one that you like and are comfortable with. If you can, attend a BP shoot and see if some of the fellas will let you shoot their rifle to let you see how you like it. Good luck.

 

[BrownBear]

I've got both, and in addition to looks, there's another noticeable difference. The TC has a higher comb, and it forces you to push your head way down to line up the sights, while the Lyman comes up with the sights lined up while your head is in a more upright position. Individual build varies of course, but with my strong cheekbones, the TC's really start to whack my cheekbone around as loads go up. Friends with TCs report no similar complaints, though.

If you're handy and like to tinker, The Hawken Shop offers a set of steel replacement parts for most of the brass on TCs. I've picked up a couple and they're great looking once you finish them. As I recall I paid around $50 each for mine.

 

[smokehouseman]

Another one worth looking at is the Pedersoli Frontier if you can find a used one. I picked mine up used a few years back but I'm sure if you shake the bushes you can find one. Take a look at this site http://muzzleloadingandmore.com/products/rifles/pedersoli_rifles/index.htm#Pedersoli Frontier Rifle

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Get a Jim Chambers flintlock kit, and you can the scouts build it.

Its better quality than any production rifle you buy for a few bucks less.

 

[Rat Trapper]

I have TC Hawken rifles in 45, 50 & 54 calibers. I really like all of them and you can shoot both conials and patched round balls out of them. The customer service is the best part of TC, as you can find a 30 year old rifle and they will still fix things for free. If you look around you should be able to find a great rifle used at a even better price. Lots of people are selling traditional rifles as they move to the new modern rifles. Tradtional rifles are now selling for less than they are worth.

 

[longcruise]

I've got both, and in addition to looks, there's another noticeable difference. The TC has a higher comb, and it forces you to push your head way down to line up the sights, while the Lyman comes up with the sights lined up while your head is in a more upright position.

Yes, and that should be a major consideration in the choice. Especially the later model stocks seem to be creeping up so as to make them scope friendly. The high comb can be offset by high sights but then that's just another thing to "fix".

I would be inclined to go with the Lyman GPR or the Lyman Trade Rifle and do the tweaking needed with these guns.

The trade rifle in .50 would be lighter and maybe easier for your younger shooters to use.

 

[cowpoke1955]

Have to agree with Lyman. Lyman uses 15/16" barrels. The .54 would be lighter, due to the larger bore. A .54 can be down loaded if recoil is too much. I shoot 80 grains of FFg Goex behind a .530 ball. This load has a light recoil (to me) and a decent hunting load. For punching paper, I'd start with 60 grains. Good luck :thumbsup:

 

[Gametracker]

+ 1 for GPR accuracy. I have a .54, and with .535's and 100 grns. Goex, I outgrouped my scoped Mossberg 500 with Rem. copper solids shooting both at 100 yards.

 

[ozark57]

Consider a .36 rifle. Your Scouts will hit better with it's low recoil and you can shoot 0000 buckshot for plinking. Uses a lot less powder. My target load is 30 grains of fffg. If you are not a deer hunter, the small bores are more fun and much cheaper to shoot.

 

[Mulebrain]

I have provided guns many times for our Scout troop.

I would flat out recommend Lyman GPR in .50!

 

[ohio ramrod]

I suggest you look for a used T.C. since they have a lifetime warrenty and you can get "drop in" barrels of different calibers. For the scouts the smaller calibers will be more comfortable and lower cost to shoot. Also if you can find one the T.C. cherokee or senaca's are better proportioned for youth, yet in 45 caliber are satisfactory for white tail deer. I am a firm believer that we need to get more youth involved in our sport and the better they do on their first experience the more likely they are to keep interested.But I also believe the great plains rifle is a good rifle as well.

 

[jbtusa]

I recommend the Lyman GPR. I have owned both the T/C and Lyman and the Lyman is more accurate. In fact, the Lyman GPR is amazingly accurate for a factory rifle. The GPR is also closer to period correct than the T/C.

 

[Billnpatti]

I have two T/C Hawkens. One is a caplock and one is a flintlock. They are both good shooting rifles but, to use a term that the kiddies like to use, they are "Farbie" :redface: . They do not look very much like a rifle of the period. The Lyman, on the other hand, looks authentic, it shoots very well and sells at a very reasonable price. In fact, I think the Lyman GPR will sell for less and yet outshoot a T/C any day. So, my recommendation is to buy a Lyman GPR. You won't be sorry.

Like any rifle of modern manufacture, it has all of the required info stamped in the top flat of the barrel. I think it may also have some stuff stamped on the side flats as well. This is not unique to Lyman, they all are required to have it. So, if you want to "de-farb" (again with the kiddie words :barf: ) your rifle, you will have to draw file the flats that have the info stamped on them. Once you have the info filed off (leave the serial number) you can brown or blue the barrel and you are ready to go.......brown is better but research shows that some barrels of the period truly were blued while otheres were left in "the white". They probably charcoal blued the barrels if they were blued. Some of the ones that we now see and assume were originally browned were possibly in the white and just browned naturally with age. :thumbsup:

It's just my opinion. It's free and worth every penny of it. :rotf:

 

[Zonie]

Both are good rifles so buy the one that costs the least for your scouts to use.