Rifle wads?

[Walks with fire]

I need to try some wads for shooting conicals from a 50 caliber 1/28" twist barrel with .005-.006 wide grooves.

I would like to try some Buffalo ball-ets in 270 grain with a wad between the powder but I have seen several posts that a wad should not be used with a hollow based conical. Is there any problem attempting to use one with a hollow base conical?

I have also read where many people use .54 wads in a 50 caliber. Should I use those? What thickness would be best? Should they be lubed or unlubed?

Are the grooves in this barrel too deep to shoot concials well?

I also have some TC maxi-hunters in 350 grain as well as some Hornday Great Plains 385 grainers. The Hornday has the hollowed out base as well.

I have some wasps nest that may serve as a wad until I purchase the right stuff. Can I buy anything at Wal-Mart that would make good wads?

It's in the teens today but I still want to get out and shoot a little today and see if I can work up a conical load that gives good accuracy.

 

[Keppy]

Might just try use a lube patch. I do behind my PRB and works just fine.

 

[rice1817]

Go to Lowes. Get the 100% wool felt weather stripping. It is about an inch or so wide, about 1/8 inch thick, and comes in long strips. Cheap, too. Soak it in your favorite lube, freeze it, then punch out the appropriate diameter wads. I find that by freezing it, you get much cleaner cuts. I picked out a piece of copper thin walled tubing of the proper ID, sharpened the edge with a countersink bit, chucked it up in my drill press and cut out the wads like that. The wads are very compressible, and a 50 caliber wad works well to seal a 44 revolver. I also made 62 caliber wads that fit my 58 well. I do not see the harm in shooting wads with hollow base bullets. The original minie bullets had a wooden plug in their base to help with obturation.

 

[paulvallandigham]

YOu want to protect the base of the bullet, just as you would in a black powder cartridge gun. You can find felt wads to fit, or Walter's fiber wads. You can also use fillers, such as Corn Meal, to seal the bore and protect the bullet base. Since you are trying new bullets of several different weights, why not simply get some corn meal at your grocery store, use the same amount( make a dipper style measure, or use any kind of dipper measure you have) of corn meal under each bullet( I recommend at least 20 grains by volume in your .50, as this seems to work well in my .50 ) so that you can shoot off a rest, hopefully over a chronograph, and find out which of these bullets will shoot best in your gun? It seems to me that you will have your hands filled just finding a proper powder charge that each bullet will like, without changing wads, or fillers. The only way to learn anything about loads is to use that chronograph, and record each shot fired. Then, vary only one ingredient of your load at a time. With a 1:28" twist, in .50 cal. I would think you will get your best accuracy shooting 450-520 grain weight bullets. Lighter, shorter bullets may not shoot as well. The only way to know is to shoot them.

You may be able to use those pre-lubed, Felt, .54 cal wads in your .50 cal. gun if can find a way to keep them centered in the barrel when you push them down. I think they will be too large in diameter to use consistently, and that is why I have recommended you try inexpensive corn meal. If you decide you don't like using corn meal, and can find something else that works better, then use the rest of the corn meal to make muffins.

 

[playfarmers]

I tried the hollow based bullets and found that they worked better with no wad under them.

 

[roundball]

FWIW, I've used them with .45cal Hornady Great Plains bullets and they were extremely accurate...never had any problems. I've seen the occasional post where somebody had accuracy problems and was convinced it was because the wad stuck to the base of the GP bullet.

It would be refreshing to see a post where somebody said they had accuracy problems and said it was THEIR fault...instead of blaming every thing under the sun that "must have caused it".

For example:
I just shot 50 Hornady .530s downrange this morning, practicing my offhand standing shooting position...the last target was horrible (in fact the frist two weren't all that great) and it was all me...it wasn't the changing angle of the sun on the sights as it rose higher in the sky, it wasn't because the temp was warming up from 19* to 30*...it wasn't because of low humidity...it was because I was getting sloppy due to fatique...pure and simple.

Conclusion:
One rifle may or may not shoot better with wads under a bullet, but I don't believe it's because wads stick to the bottom of Hornady GP bullets causing accuracy problems...I think one person posted that and others just repeat it...but that's just my .02cents

 

[Walks with fire]

Well I just got back from shooting the conicals and I could not get them to group very well. I only used the 270grain ball-et and the Hornady 385. Both hollow based and used no wad. I really didn't care for the conicals anyway.

I had the 24" barrel on the stock so I decided to try a 60 grain load and .495 ball with Wal-mart pillow tick patch. I shot three at 50 yards and got about a 2" group. Then I went up to 80 grains and fired 2 more. They hit about 3" high and around 2" apart. Shot one more with 80 grains at 75 yards and hit dead center. Didn't have any more RB's with me but with a little tweeking I think this 1/28 twister is going to do ok with good ol roundballs.

I am going back tomorrow for some more roundball shooting. Test out some 3f and shoot some groups out to 100 yards. I can't believe that fast of twist worked as good as it did with roundballs. I hope it was not just a fluke!

 

[playfarmers]

To bad about the conicals, but I am glad you had some good luck with the round balls. I know of one other person that has a fast twist barrel and shoots round balls all the time. I too like the round balls best.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I have recovered hollow based bullets with wads stuck in the hollow base. In every case, the wad was paper or " cardboard", and there was lube stuck inside the hollow that " glued " the wad to the hollow base. The heavier felt wads don't seem to stick, and if the base of the bullet is kept free of grease or lube, nothing sticks to it.

I have seen cartridge shooters use wax paper " wads" between the base of a flat-base bullet and wad with lube to make sure that the wads did not stick to the base of the bullet. If I were working up an accuracy load with hollow base bullets, I might try balling up a piece of wax paper and sticking it in the hollow base just to make sure nothing would fill or jam into, or stick to the hollow base. Then I would seat that hollow based bullet on top of some kind of filler, or wad, and blame all my misses on me.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I still suspect that your conicals are too short for the caliber, and you don't have enough spin to stabilize them. However, the recoil on those conicals can become noticed, so I don't blame you for working on a RB load. You may have to use one of those plastic sabot loads with pistol bullets to get the accuracy out of that barrel.

 

[roundball]

I also experimented with conicals in a TC .50cal x 1:48" but could never get groups as tight as I wanted in the .50.

On the other hand, TC's .45cal/255grn Maxi-Hunters will drive tacks in their .45cal x 1:48" barrels...I have different .45cal cap & Flint barrels and they all shoot that particular maxi-Hunter extremely well...it's the only conical I continue to keep on hand and keep a .45cal Flintlock sighted in with it, try to shoot a deer with it most deer seasons...devastating on them too.

 

[PreglerD]

I also use conicals, but I never use wads. Therfore we have to look for what wads are made. Normally, especially in BP-Cartridge, the wads have the use of a filler when less BP is used as the shell will carry. With ML there is this problem not, because the bullet seats always on the BP charge when everything is correct loaded. The wad in a ML has the only use to prevent the bullet or the patch from burning. So I load my .54 Investarms Hawken with wad between powder and PRB when using a high load for hunting, so the patch don't burn. That works great. I can't see the sense of a wad when using conicals.

 

[Walks with fire]

I was looking to get a light weight conical round worked up for this barrel because I don't want the recoil from going any heavier in bullet weight - even if they did shot real well. I just don't want to deal with that hard of recoil for a deer round. This rifle shoots the stuff we don't discuss on this forum real well and I am happy to find it shoot roundballs well with the lighter charges.

I still have my TC roundball guns in 50 caliber that I worked up good accurate loads for this fall. I really don't care for conical bullets anyway so I don't mind them not grouping well. Next thing I want to do is get a bigger roundball rifle but can't decide on .54 or .58.

 

[roundball]

Next thing I want to do is get a bigger roundball rifle but can't decide on .54 or .58.

Well, since this hobby has become my only vice, I've accumulated both .54 & .58cals and will share a couple opinions.

The .54cal is an outstanding caliber for deer and delivers strong energy at distance with it's 225grn ball.

But the .58 is in another league altogether...a real powerhouse with it's larger size, heavier 279grn ball...carries strong energy all the way out and has a lot of 'whomp-ability' when it gets there!

In addition, it seems to be a uniquely accurate caliber...didn't seem to matter what powder charge I tried when I was sighting it in...they all just kept going into the center of the bull.

So in my opinion since you've already got the .50cal, I'd suggest a skip-caliber decision and get the .58cal...instead of just taking another small incremental step to the .54cal.

My .58cal is a GM 1" x 33" x 1:70" Flint barrel and it's just outstanding...have it in a large size TC Hawken stock...killed a half dozen bucks with it at 40-50yds and you can "see" the effect it has on deer compared to lessor calibers.

On the other hand, TC's Fox Ridge has the .58cal barrels for the Hawken / Renegade, both cap & Flint, in standard 1" x 28" x 1:48", and my experience has been that my 1:48" twists shoot round balls very accurately.

If I lived in NH where I might get in on a moose hunt and had both a .54 & .58 in the rack, I'd grab the .58cal without hesitation...it's a big game rifle for sure.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you can find the equivalent of a wadcutter bullet for your rifle, try them. They may just work well with that rate of twist. They should be short enough, and I suspect fairly light in weight. If I were you, I would go back to that 270 grain bullet and try wads, and anything else you can dream up, or has been suggested here, to see if you can't find a load it will like. That is a pretty light bullet for a .50 cal. gun, so you should be able to increase the load to 80-90 grains of FFg without it ruining your shoulder. I would start at 50 grains, and work my way up to see if the groups did not close.

 

[Walks with fire]

Roundball,
I think the .58 caliber is really what I should get because I want something that hits hard out to 100 yards and I want to shoot roundballs. I don't have a stock for a 1" barrel though; so I would need to build the rifle and don't know if I have the skills for that. I really like a plain style stock without all the brass like what comes with the TC Hawken

I have been looking for stocks on E-bay and I want to use flintlock for sure. As you know I am somewhat of an accuracy nut so your advice on the Green Mountian barrel is on target. Thanks for the help.

I like the stock on my PA hunter from TC and I have seen a Manton style stock that looks very similar to that so I may go that route. I also like the trigger and trigger guard on my RMC flintlock but don't know what kind it is. I also think I would want a Siler lock for it. Lots of stuff to check out yet before I get components.

Paul,
Next time out I will dabble a little with some wads to see what happens. I seems that once I get over 350 grain conicals in the 24" barrel it's a bit more than I want to shoot. There is quite a difference between the 385 Great Plains and the 270 grain Ball-et. I took a deer at about 65 yards with that 270 grain ball-et once and performance was great. It was shot from my TC PA Hunter carbine with 1/66 twist. I don't shoot anything out of the PA hunter barrels but roundballs now.