ROA Centennial Edition - What have I got?

[Smokerr]

Ok, it was a good deal for a parts gun and an open question to me on the No Warning (which I new about) and the Centennial edition not expected though I knew its date, just not specifically a Marked 200 Year Variant (hope that makes sense)

No its not pristine. Ballpark I would call it 80% though it might be a bit better. Its obviously seen use with drag marks, one screw area on the bottom a small amount of barre3l end wear and small wear marks, aka holster (one small ding on barrel).

Scratches in the caper area. Barrel does not look bad - still have to clean it.

From the Rammer condition I would say it was shot a fair amount or a lot.

I threw in a bid on it (very low) as it was not seeing any interest and thought the usual parachute in would occur. It went for the initial asking price. At worst its interesting and good parts.

 

[brushblind]

Good find! Parts are no longer available from Ruger (which is scandalous), Numrich has a few parts but most are used. If you got it cheap enough, great find.

 

[45D]

Good find! Parts are no longer available from Ruger (which is scandalous), Numrich has a few parts but most are used. If you got it cheap enough, great find.

Fortunately new hammers and triggers are available as well as new cylinders. Hands and bolts are easy to make so, it's not as bad as it seems.

Mike

 

[Smokerr]

Mike:

I had done some sleuthing and had seen that. Still, Cylinder price vs a whole gun and the rest of the parts seemed like at least worth it.

Still curious about assessment/value with the warning not there as well as a Centennial gun.

 

[M. De Land]

Ok, it was a good deal for a parts gun and an open question to me on the No Warning (which I new about) and the Centennial edition not expected though I knew its date, just not specifically a Marked 200 Year Variant (hope that makes sense)

No its not pristine. Ballpark I would call it 80% though it might be a bit better. Its obviously seen use with drag marks, one screw area on the bottom a small amount of barre3l end wear and small wear marks, aka holster (one small ding on barrel).

Scratches in the caper area. Barrel does not look bad - still have to clean it.

From the Rammer condition I would say it was shot a fair amount or a lot.

I threw in a bid on it (very low) as it was not seeing any interest and thought the usual parachute in would occur. It went for the initial asking price. At worst its interesting and good parts.

Parts gun my foot, bet money it came from the factory like that as far as early bolt drop and will shoot from now on just as it is ! As long as it makes a clean lift and traverse out of the bolt notch and doesn't contact the back edge before it drops it hurts nothing in the function. The rub line is what bugs folks and it is harmless. That is not a bolt hop. You've been drinking the cool-aid that Rugers are out of time with their early bolt drop ! That may be a new gun Colt standard but it certainly was not ever a Ruger spec.
Actually any long in the tooth Colt will eventually begin to show increased early drop, rub line length.

 

[45D]

The rub line is what bugs folks and it is harmless. That is not a bolt hop. You've been drinking the cool-aid that Rugers are out of time with their early bolt drop ! That may be a new gun Colt standard but it certainly was not ever a Ruger spec.

First of all there are Old Model Rugers ( 3 screw) and New Model ( 2 pin) models and they don't operate the same. Folks that argue these things should know that.

So, no "cool-aid" envolved. Three screw Rugers have the same timing as Colt. Pure and simple if the parts are good and timing is correct, there should be no cyl rings. A "moving" bolt drop mark (earlier than original) indicates a wearing part and signals attention. Typically a ring comes from ignorant handling / parts breakage.

Doing away with half **** ( NM Rugers) turned the "Beauty Ring" for SA's into a DA type mark. "Close the cyl, rotate to lockup", " close the loading gate, rotate to lockup". Basically says that in the Kuhnhausen book.

So, on a ROA "beauty rings" tell about "upkeep".

Bolt "bounce" deals with throw-by . . . different topic.

Mike

 

[Smokerr]

I ran a 45 cal brush and soapy water through the bore. Still not pristine but clean, looked more aged.

I hit it with the Carbon Killer 2000 and got a bit more crud out. Lighter brown so possibly flash rust from the soap and water though not seen on the other BPs doing the same.

Still a reasonably clean bore for a gun that has been shot what looks to be a fair amount.

The other ROA (94) was unfired.

I am tending to think Ruger did not time these all that well as both have a bit of drag and the 77 looks to be same drag except more gun use.

 

[M. De Land]

Fortunately new hammers and triggers are available as well as new cylinders. Hands and bolts are easy to make so, it's not as bad as it seems.

Mike

Three screws that have an early bolt drop, function just as well as do all later models. Besides I'm talking about the ROA Centenial pictured ! I happen to own a Centenial ROA as well.
I'm not sure I've actually ever seen a factory timed three screw Ruger or any other BH with perfect (Colt style timing) lead cut only, bolt rub , come to think on it.
I seem to remember most demonstrate a bolt drop about half way between notches before the lead cut.

 

[45D]

Three screws that have an early bolt drop, function just as well as do all later models. Besides I'm talking about the ROA Centenial pictured ! I happen to own a Centenial ROA as well.
I'm not sure I've actually ever seen a factory timed three screw Ruger or any other BH with perfect (Colt style timing) lead cut only, bolt rub , come to think on it.
I seem to remember most demonstrate a bolt drop about half way between notches before the lead cut.

POINT BEING (!) IF there is a ring on a Colt, Colt type or 3 screw Ruger. It has either :
- Been neglected
- Broken an action part
- or been mishandled.

Never said it wouldn't function.

Folks used to take care of their firearms and learned HOW TO HANDLE a SA revolver . . . mainly, NEVER touch the cylinder except for loading / unloading . . . ( hammer on half ****) otherwise, the ACTION (cycling the action) will keep everything in order. Used to be "common" knowledge in the "gun community". You don't put a SCRATCH on someone else's revolver.

Mike

 

[Smokerr]

Mike:

The drag marks seem to be pretty common. I know you see a lot more of these than anyone else, but my experience with the unfired ROA I got was what I have seen and others commented on. ie drag marks start to appear as soon as you use it.

I had the two 58 Remingtons before I got the ROA and learned about the half **** from those (the 76 was not working correctly at all so I did the research.

So no I have not done anything other than put the ROA to half **** and drag marks started to appear. And again, it was unfired. (seller said he thought it was but did not guarantee it, the FFL who is a serious BP guy said the same in disbelief and my take on in depth inspection was that non fired as well. Clearly the Centennial has seen use, hard telling but I would guess moderate.

Whoever owned it and fired it clearly took good care of it (ding aside its normal holster wear and the cylinder was very clean and the barrel was decently clean as well - I have seen far worse cruded up guns that had been taken care of (ie before we got the very good modern Carbon cleaners that I can at least clean the barrels up nicely)

I lean to Ruger did not time these well (or maybe at all). Not being a Ruger SA guy I don't know what the Blackhawks came with.

I did have a Ruger SA 44 magnum circa 73 or so, the transfer bar was very poorly timed. I don't remember cylinder drag or not but that is awfully far in the rear view mirror.

 

[45D]

Mike:

The drag marks seem to be pretty common. I know you see a lot more of these than anyone else, but my experience with the unfired ROA I got was what I have seen and others commented on. ie drag marks start to appear as soon as you use it.

So, the idea is the manufacturer doesn't know how to "finish" their product, but everybody who owned it before you took "exceptional" care of it? I think not ( no offense meant, just logical thinking that the owners knew better than Ruger? Really?).
How many new cars get sold with dents and scratches? Hey, it's gonna happen right ? Who cares?!!!
( My ROA's drop the bolt in the approach . . . ).

So no I have not done anything other than put the ROA to half **** and drag marks started to appear. And again, it was unfired.

So the "Beauty Ring" on the cylinder in the picture is solely yours ( all the other marks on the frame but the cyl was pristine?)? At the first "hint" of dragging would have been the time to stop, remove the cylinder and look for the problem. That looks like a LOT of Ring for you to have just done!!.

Whoever owned it and fired it clearly took good care of it (ding aside its normal holster wear and the cylinder was very clean and the barrel was decently clean as well . . .

Clearly didn't.

I lean to Ruger did not time these well (or maybe at all). Not being a Ruger SA guy I don't know what the Blackhawks came with.

Again, ignorant owners know best, Ruger sells junkie revolvers . . .

I don't agree . . .
Mike

 

[Smokerr]

Mike:

I am sorry that I am getting two guns mixed up here. The one with the drag marks is the 77, that one definitely saw use. What I am talking about in regards to it is the barrel was more than decently cleaned, cylinders is good and having taken it down, insides are clean. So yes, I would say its been taken care of. Marks on the screws/grip frame lead me to believe that it was taken down to clean the insides.

Certainly I could be wrong but I sleuthed at mechanical stuff for a lot of years, I would put it at 99% confidence (not often you get a mechanic to do that! - well, people that liked to prove you wrong because they did not like you tended to make me a bit paranoid ( with good reason) so I fudged on things assessment wise. A few times I flat told them it was going to fail soon and was right. Ok, I digress.

The 94 is the one that was un-fired. Not a mark on it, not a hint of crud, no tarnish, just clean as a whistle.

I am forgiving of people that don't know in depth aspects of the SA, Ii would cfertainly be one of them and still am in all honesty though I know more than when I started.

The 94 is showing light drag marks, use it enough if I don't fix the plunger and it will look like the 77 with use. The 94 clearly is on the edge, tilts back and forth a bit.

So how much attention did the odd ball in the group ROA get? My experience was with the Transfer Bar Blackhawk so it would have had the Port Loading latch. Half **** not being on my radar when I started with BP (though it was one of the first things I looked into due to the 58 Rem ASP being badly out of time).

My impression is that Ruger was not that high quality with their finishing on the guns. Granted that is from a total of 3 of the type I own or have owned. Others have mentioned the drag marks as well.

So we need some pre 73s viewed or owned as well and can't prove a negative. I don't have any background on or in that group which mechanically would have been the same as the ROA if I have my history down right.

And don't get me wrong, Ruger was solid, heck for stout. I hunted with one of their bolt actions for a lot of years. No tack driver but that is not what hunting is about either.

 

[Smokerr]

Mike:

Not trying to be argumentative but understanding as much as I can.

My added thought is that with the cylinder out, you can see the bolt drop but come back up a bit on both of the ROAs I have when released to the half **** position.

If it stayed below frame level then it could not drag. That to my thinking (and it could be wrong) is responsible for those drag marks (at least on the two I have).

 

[45D]

Mike:

Not trying to be argumentative but understanding as much as I can.

My added thought is that with the cylinder out, you can see the bolt drop but come back up a bit on both of the ROAs I have when released to the half **** position.

If it stayed below frame level then it could not drag. That to my thinking (and it could be wrong) is responsible for those drag marks (at least on the two I have).

PM sent.

 

[Smokerr]

Big thank you to Mike in getting me corrected on some of the SA terms I was using wrong.

Like all technical fields SA has its own verbiage and it is not always logical but came to be and you need to adjust to those definitions so you can discuss things in their correct context.

To me Bolt drop would mean it going down but as Mike conveyed, its dropping up. You can see where that would get confusing trying to discuss what is going on with the functions involved.

And while Cylinder Latch is more correct for its function, back in the beginning it was called a bolt and that is what is is today (or far more used). A swing out revolver is going to have a latch as well (or the famous S&W triple lock).

More common used term for the Bolt Arms vs plow handles I have used. Call it first time I saw it discussed is what stuck. Better to use Arms as that is understood across the spectrum.

Some of this you can squint at and understand and some not.

I worked with backup building Generators and Big Automatic switches (dinning table size) - to go from Utility to the Genaro the word Transfer was used.

Re-transfer was going back from the Generator to Utility. There were all sorts of timers involved and not used in both directions. If you did not know what Transfer was then you did not know what or how to set those timers.

Ditto re-transfer. And if you had to talk to someone about it, you had to be very specific or the conversation went sideways immediately. The guys I worked with thought I was a word Nazi, but if I was talking to them over a phone or radio, I had to know where we were at and trying to go to.

 

[M. De Land]

POINT BEING (!) IF there is a ring on a Colt, Colt type or 3 screw Ruger. It has either :
- Been neglected
- Broken an action part
- or been mishandled.

Never said it wouldn't function.

Folks used to take care of their firearms and learned HOW TO HANDLE a SA revolver . . . mainly, NEVER touch the cylinder except for loading / unloading . . . ( hammer on half ****) otherwise, the ACTION (cycling the action) will keep everything in order. Used to be "common" knowledge in the "gun community". You don't put a SCRATCH on someone else's revolver.

Mike

My point is Bill Ruger apparently never designed any model of his revolvers to drop the bolt solely in the lead cut because it's more or less an accident if any of them do or ever did.

 

[45D]

My point is Bill Ruger apparently never designed any model of his revolvers to drop the bolt solely in the lead cut because it's more or less an accident if any of them do or ever did.

You can think anything you want.
Funny how all 5 of my ROA's were correct when I got them and I've only done "my thing" to two of them . . .

In fact, on page 168 of the Kuhnhausen book ( Ruger) it specifically says what I said. OM ( 3 screw) Rugers bolt should drop at the beginning of the approach.

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

You can think anything you want.
Funny how all 5 of my ROA's were correct when I got them and I've only done "my thing" to two of them . . .

You can think anything you want.
Funny how all 5 of my ROA's were correct when I got them and I've only done "my thing" to two of them . . .

Your right, that is very unusual !

 

[45D]

Your right, that is very unusual !

Not really.
I just edited my previous post but I'm happy to repeat it.

On page 168 of the Kuhnhausen book ( Ruger SA revolvers) it exactly explains the OM ( 3 screw) is to drop the bolt in the beginning of the approach.

You know, I know this stuff really really well and not just because I've read it a time or two but mainly because I do this stuff every single day . . . not every week or every few days, I do this on any of the three platforms (Ruger, Colt or Remington) every single day . . .

Mike

 

[Smokerr]

Sure makes sense. You don't want a bit of off to not drop it in time to lock it up correctly.

But then my only issues have been my understanding of terms. Everything from Mike is spot on solid.

But that is the difference between someone who does it for a living and the theoretical thing that gets concocted.

Now don't get me wrong, I worked with a guy like that. Something would fail and he had a theory, anything new failure wise it was invariably wrong.

I would point out to him where the flaw was and either what the issue was or get him headed in the right direction. Once he got it, he was a streak of effort and good work.

But if it came down to theoretical vs reality, then reality wins every time. Of course you have to watch out for what is called confirmation bias. Throwing the maiden into the Volcano is a variation of that. Ok, it quit. Ahaha, we throw a maiden in, problem solved (well except for the poor maiden and its shocking, I say shocking on who gets picked.

But then comes the day the volcanoes goes boom and its, well, must have been something wrong with the maiden not my thinking.

As a practical sort I think the management should be thrown in. At the worst its no loss and who knows, maybe the universe has a sense of humor.