ROA Centennial Edition - What have I got?

[M. De Land]

Not really.
I just edited my previous post but I'm happy to repeat it.

On page 168 of the Kuhnhausen book ( Ruger SA revolvers) it exactly explains the OM ( 3 screw) is to drop the bolt in the beginning of the approach.

You know, I know this stuff really really well and not just because I've read it a time or two but mainly because I do this stuff every single day . . . not every week or every few days, I do this on any of the three platforms (Ruger, Colt or Remington) every single day . . .

Mike

So then we're left to conclude that the majority, numbering in the tens of thousands of Blackhawks ( all models) and ROA's that drop the bolt pre lead cut, are all out of time and need correction or will self destruct ?
If that's your contention then I disagree with both you and Kuhnhausen on that point !

 

[45D]

So then we're left to conclude that the majority, numbering in the tens of thousands of Blackhawks ( all models) and ROA's that drop the bolt pre lead cut, are all out of time and need correction or will self destruct ?
If that's your contention then I disagree with both you and Kuhnhausen on that point !

No, you're still lumping all the BH's together. There's OM BH's and NM BH's. The timing for OM's is like Colt and the NM's time at the mid mark between chambers. Maybe you don't have the Kuhnhausen book on Ruger SA's but on the very same page (168), very same paragraph, very next sentence, it describes NM timing as being mid way between chambers.
So, yes if there's a mark on the cyl before the approach on an OM Ruger, there's a timing issue / mishandling
(yes, it will still function but it is Out of Spec per factory). If the mark on the NM cyl is before Midway between chambers, there is a timing issue / mishandling per factory.

Jerry Kuhnhausen was a master gunsmith and Jim Martin ( who was a major contributor to the Colt SA book at the behest of Jerry) were /are (Jim is still with us) the most knowledgeable people on the SA revolver. That is a major reason why Brownell's, USFA, AWA, Midway, Cimarron and many other companies use the Kuhnhausen book as an in house manual.

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

Three screws that have an early bolt drop, function just as well as do all later models. Besides I'm talking about the ROA Centenial pictured ! I happen to own a Centenial ROA as well.
I'm not sure I've actually ever seen a factory timed three screw Ruger or any other BH with perfect (Colt style timing) lead cut only, bolt rub , come to think on it.
I seem to remember most demonstrate a bolt drop about half way between notches before the lead cut.

Upon further investigation into the history of the ROA it turns out it was a modification of the Super Black Hawk in size and strength without the transfer bar lock work hardware and was proofed with full chambers of Bullseye powder under a .454 ball. It's first run was from 72 to 81 and were all blued chrome-moly steel. The frames , cylinders and many of the parts were investment cast then milled to final dimension and fitted to Ruger Spec.
The front of the frame was extended to house the loading ram and it's lock pin with a slotted head. Starting in 82 the stainless guns began to appear.
Interestingly the ROA lasted longer in it's production run than did any of it's predecessors in percussion form.
It is speculated by some that two things brought on it's demise in 2008, flagging sales and the after market availability of cartridge adapting cylinders, that may have produced increased liability risk.
It was also of interest to learn that the ROA used Rugers standard .45 Colt barrels mounted in the cartridge guns.

 

[45D]

Upon further investigation into the history of the ROA it turns out it was a modification of the Super Black Hawk in size and strength without the transfer bar lock work hardware and was proofed with full chambers of Bullseye powder under a .454 ball. It's first run was from 72 to 81 and were all blued chrome-moly steel. The frames , cylinders and many of the parts were investment cast then milled to final dimension and fitted to Ruger Spec.
The front of the frame was extended to house the loading ram and it's lock pin with a slotted head. Starting in 82 the stainless guns started to appear.
Interestingly the ROA last longer in it's production run than did any of it's predecessors in percussion form.
It is speculated by some that two things brought on it's demise in 2008, flagging sales and the after market sales of cartridge adapting cylinders, that may have produced increased liability risk.

Yap, wokeness apparently was the demise of the ROA !!
They are definitely the "premo" revolver !!!

Mike

 

[Smokerr]

Having followed the recommendation on the Hammer Plunger (right) and improving the initial bolt raising (still working on terminology) the ROA clearly simplified the bolt ops.

While I have the general idea on the old BP types for the bolt, ROA I can clearly see (and correct).

The ASP fix I did working right was pure luck. What should have been the right or better bolt did not at all (worse than the original messed up one).

 

[ROA457]

Parts gun my foot, bet money it came from the factory like that as far as early bolt drop and will shoot from now on just as it is ! As long as it makes a clean lift and traverse out of the bolt notch and doesn't contact the back edge before it drops it hurts nothing in the function. The rub line is what bugs folks and it is harmless. That is not a bolt hop. You've been drinking the cool-aid that Rugers are out of time with their early bolt drop ! That may be a new gun Colt standard but it certainly was not ever a Ruger spec.
Actually any long in the tooth Colt will eventually begin to show increased early drop, rub line length.

Been watching this thread for some time without jumping in. I can’t see the big deal with the “beauty ring”, mine pictured after over 40 years of use, at least 200 rounds a month. It is what it is and I can still sell it for A$1000+, but I won’t. I’ve replaced three sets of nipples due to wear, I think my last misfire was over 10 years ago.

 

[OldMaineWoodsman]

Lots of fact, opinion, and speculation in this discussion.

The stainless-steel ROA appeared before 1982. Possibly 1976 being the first. I have one manufactured in 1979. I have also seen so-called "Liberty Guns" with the 200th year of American Liberty roll mark on them. Ruger designed the ROA to get into the emerging Cowboy Action Shooting activity, along with the renewed interest in muzzleloaders and black powder shooting.

He wanted a solid, trouble-free revolver, of modern materials, using as much of the components/parts of the Blackhawk as possible, while maintaining a historic or traditional look. There is much speculation, but Ruger was a firearms historian who studied many designs and favored some over others. If he wanted a historic or traditional look to his Old Army, it may have been this:

https://whitneyrevolver.com/

The grip frame, and many of the internal parts or components are Blackhawk. XR-3 RED grips will fit nicely on the ROA.

It is true that Ruger simply used .45 caliber barrels.

I have never heard that Ruger discontinued the ROA because of conversion cylinders. Not to say that it might have been a factor or concern, but most firearm models are discontinued due to declining sale numbers, and/or production costs.

History doesn't sell current firearms, as DuPont said when they owned Remington.

The ROA, NM Blackhawk, and NM Super Blackhawk are mass-produced, investment cast revolvers. If you have ever visited the factory in Newport, New Hampshire you will see the entire production and finishing process, along with the pride of product that goes into their final assembly. They are a strong, rugged, and reliable revolver, and great value for the money.

What they are not is hand-fitted and tuned like a Colt SAA.

 

[OldMaineWoodsman]

Another thing to consider. One of the benefits of stainless steel is the ability to work out or remove scuffs and scratches with Crocus Cloth or fine steel wool and sandpaper.

Also, being mass-produced, parts are easily swapped out.

So that as new, or unturned cylinder revolver being sold for $900-1000 may not be quite so new.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The drag marks seem to be pretty common.

More than common. Actually, I have never seen any revolver, old original, repro, modern, none that did not have drag marks. Those ROAs seldom go bad. I'll betcha it is very shootable as is. BTW, it is a BICENTENNIAL model from 1976. America's 200th year of freedom. Quite a collectible model. I had one and sold it too cheap.

 

[Smokerr]

I agree the ring is not a mechanical issue, its a visual bothering thing and yea, the DA revolvers have it. Still the one on my Centennial is pretty blatant.

The ROAs are available at a reasonable price (if you shop a bit and bid carefully). I think that says the market was satisfied and likely still is.

You do see people listing them (I won't call them sellers) for close to $1000 in an every day average ROA you can get for 600-750. The listings just re-post , no one is buying them. Einstein on doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Its worth noting that the Grip frame up into the early 80s (I think) was aluminum. My 94 has a steel grip frame of course. Not an issue just surprised - I knew early ones had aluminum but had not realized they went past 77.

Very easy gun to take down. Sure don't have the struggle with the Spring on the Colt Open top (I did come up with a fix using a clamp as my hands don't have that kind of grip or more accurately pushing the limits and I don't want to hurt myself doing it)

Only part I am not keen on is the cylinder removal and its not that bad, just a bit more motion. Definitely secure.

I had the bolt raising corrector on the Centennial now. I would guess its accurate that Ruger did not hand fit these. He was into production costs (ergo the MIM) and tolerance should have been assured. No idea how or why the bolt sticking up a bit higher than it should got by, as noted, he and his team may not have thought it was a big deal.

Looking at my innards on the Centennial, it does not look like a lot of shooting though the screws indicate it was taken down more than once (various scratch marks). So maybe cleaned good.

 

[45D]

Been watching this thread for some time without jumping in. I can’t see the big deal with the “beauty ring”, mine pictured after over 40 years of use, at least 200 rounds a month. It is what it is and I can still sell it for A$1000+, but I won’t. I’ve replaced three sets of nipples due to wear, I think my last misfire was over 10 years ago.

So what you're saying is the bolt draggs from notch to notch ( bet its something else to load!!! ). I'd bet there's some wear on the hammer plunger and/or the back surface of the bolt (cyl latch) for some of it, probably some throw-by events along with rotating the cyl by hand to lockup.

I've produced the factory timing setup so the "how it looks" is on you.

Hey, those must be really good nipples for ten yrs, they apparently have 24,000 rounds through them.
Good deal !!!

Mike

 

[45D]

More than common. Actually, I have never seen any revolver, old original, repro, modern, none that did not have drag marks.

What you see is inexpensive revolvers ran for as long as they can, in whatever condition the action is in, even folks talking about having to "help the cylinder rotate by hand" . The average person doesn't treat a wheelbarrow like its a Rolls.

Those ROAs seldom go bad. I'll betcha it is very shootable as is. BTW, it is a BICENTENNIAL model from 1976. America's 200th year of freedom. Quite a collectible model. I had one and sold it too cheap.

Yeah, they never "go bad" . . . but for some reason, I have a lot come through the shop . . . Crazy huh?
Mike

 

[45D]

I just wonder how many folks would buy a brand new SA revolver that already has a "Beauty Ring"? ( they don't come that way from the factory).
Something makes me think they'd want a discount or to see another one . . . (let's be honest).

Mike

 

[Smokerr]

Well it shoots pretty decent. Getting 2-3 inch groups at 25 yrds with it.

 

[M. De Land]

Well it shoots pretty decent. Getting 2-3 inch groups at 25 yrds with it.

A ROA will out last a factory Colt just as they come from Ruger..