rookie question

[trad hunter]

Just got intersted in black powder I have been hunting
with traditional archery equipment last three years.I
am interested in your opinons on what would be a good
starter gun.I want to hunt deer mostly but also like
turkey and small game.Would a smooth bore be better
or a percussion and what calaber.Sorry so long winded
just very excited and ignorant.bad combination so
need help thank you!

 

Price my man? We need to know how deep your pockets are. I'll show you one at $205... another at $269. Both are fine rifles at very modest prices. Both are deer or larger guns. I would surmize that a 50-cal could be used on small game, but meat damage at a higher level will occur.

Click Here For Cabelas Hawkens

Click Here For Lyman Deerstalker

 

The Lyman Plains Rifle is probably the best gun for the money. It is much more traditional than a lot of the other guns on the market. By that, I mean it looks like a REAL muzzleloading rifle such as those antiques in collections.
; Please check it out before purchasing your first rifle & compare asthetics, visual lines of the piece as well as asking questions about it.
: A .50 cal is GREAT for deer, yet can be loaded down for plinking or small game hunting.
: I recommend a slow, round ball twist rather than the fast slug twist for your first barrel or rifle. The faster twists from 24" to 48" generally have shallow button rifled barrels that are not as good for shooting round balls as a deep grooved cut rifled barrel will be. An advantage of the Lyman Plains Rifle is that they have both kinds of barrels available & you get to pick which one you want, or can purchase both the slow proper RB twist as well as a fast, 28" twist for shooing slugs. 48" twists iof some guns are sort-of inbetween, being on the ragged edge of too slow for slugs and with their shallow rifling, not as good for round balls as slower cut rifling is. IMHO, of course.

 

You deffinately want a capper, stay away from flintlocks at all costs.
Flintlocks are highly addictive, much more so than cappers. After you get your 5th or 6th capper (and you will) then you can start saving a couple grand for a custom flinter and get really ,really hooked like the rest of us going to the poor house! :haha:
And STOP saying you are ignorant, you are NOT! Please ask questions and read this forum at least one a day. You will learn by leaps and bounds...some of what you learn will be about black powder shooting.
Some of what you learn will be what a 'possums patoot looks like. :bull: :applause: ::
Do you want a ball or bullet shooter????
I'd vote for the Lyman Great Plains or Hunter in a cap lock.
Go to www.auctionarms.com and search the "blackpowder" threads. You can often pick up a good used gun at a fair price.
I bought a Lyman Deerstalker unfired for 140 bucks from that site.
Welcome aboard. Ask questions and let us know what you come up with and everyone here will give you lots of advice...some of it will actually be usefull! ::

 

[Zonie]

Trad Hunter:
I'm happy you decided to include Black Powder Muzzleloading as a addition to archery. I would suggest the two compliment each other in that both require real hunting skill on the hunters part, and a successful hunt with both has more meaning than using modern high power firearms.

Here are a few thoughts about your question:

You want a rifle. The smooth bores musket style guns are rather expensive and (some would say) not real accurate beyond 40 yards.

First off, I would suggest that you choose a rifle which shoots round balls. My reason for saying this is that as with any weapon, to shoot it accurately you need to shoot it a lot.

Round balls can be bought for as little as 8 cents each and if you really get interested in your gun, round balls can be cast for less than 3 cents each. This basically says it won't cost much to get good with your rifle. Round balls also need a patch. If you buy the patches they cost about 5 cents each, but they are easy to make yourself at almost no cost.

All of the In-Line guns have fast twists which will not give good accuracy with a hunting load and round balls.
The In-Lines require the use of a sabot and (usually) a jacketed bullet. This can raise the price for just the bullet/sabot to the 20 cents to over $1 per shot depending on the bullet/sabot you use.

I would suggest your new rifle should be a percussion style.
They are about the same ignition speed and reliability as a modern rifle, the only difference being that you have to place the primer (cap) on the nipple.
As much fun as it is to shoot flintlocks, they are harder to get used to. If you really like blackpowder shooting, you can buy the flinter later on.

You will see several posts here which maintain that a .40 caliber is sufficient for deer but I would say you really need a .45 or larger caliber gun.
The .45 is more than adaquate for deer out to 50 yards while the .50 does a great job beyond 80.
A lot of people choose the .54 caliber and it is IMO capable of taking anything from a moose on down. It is a little much for turkey and small game though.
When all is said and done, I would suggest the .50 caliber.

As for actual rifle choices, if your just playing with the idea of shooting black powder, the CVA sidelock guns will work well and they are relatively low cost.
If your a little more serious and want something with higher quality, go with Lyman or Thompson Center or Traditions sidelocks.
If you agree that round balls are your choice, buy a 1:48 to a 1:70 twist. Do not buy the 1:36 or faster twist.

If your buying new, enough said, but if your thinking of buying used guns, pay special attention to the condition of the bore. Black Powder fouling will rust the bore and some people don't seem to know this. This results in a lot of guns with rusted bores, and rust pits in the bore can tear up the cloth patches which are required with round balls.

As for questions, do not hesitate to ask as many as you want. That is what this forum is all about. Helping others learn about our great hobby (in all of its areas) for most of us only adds to the pleasure of black powder shooting

Welcome to the forum and to Black Powder shooting. Your interest in both place you well ahead of the crowd.

 

[tg]

I would cast another vote for the Lyman Great Plains in .50
it looks like a real ML and is a quality gun for the $$$ Midsouth Shooters supply usually has the best price on these. For the real ML experience go with a patched RB, open iron sights...anything else is just that..... something else.

 

tradhunter, you've received some great advice and it is beyond me to add to or detract from that which has been said.

I'll throw in another vote for the Lyman GPR. I had one and have nothing but good to say about them. I'll also second the 50 cal as first choice. I prefer the 54 but I took about 20 years getting to it. The 50 with a round ball twist is never wrong. Good luck!

Vic

 

[Hein]

Welcome to this forum. I am somewhat of a rookie myself also added black powder shooting to archery I am still doing.
I found that the advice you get here are excellent. Some of these guys have been shooting front stuffers for a veeeeeery loooooooong time. I agree that your budget needs to be considered very carefully as you will need to buy some extra equipment that is used for black powder shooting. Some things are not needed but can make your life so much easier.
Take the advise that is given but remember to make the rifle, the load ,the equipment and the enjoyment your "own"

 

[Stumpkiller]

Just got intersted in black powder I have been hunting
with traditional archery equipment last three years.I
am interested in your opinons on what would be a good
starter gun.I want to hunt deer mostly but also like
turkey and small game.Would a smooth bore be better
or a percussion and what caliber.

LOL. When you have the definitive answer you will have rendered this website obsolete. I've been M/L since 1979 and I still can't decide. Been a 'traditional' archer since it was just 'archery' to carry a recurve. ::

(That's me and my favorite stump near a 'top secret' virgin hemlock section).

The offerings of a smoothbore are well matched to a traditional archer. My 16 ga/.66 cal. fusil could about triple my effective deer hunting range (20 yds became 60 yds). However, my 80 yard field archery shots about equalled my musket lobs at that distance. Add the versitility of small game with shot and the smoothbore surges ahead.

BUT . . .

There is a great deal of satisfaction in tight, little target groups and headshots on squirrels that rifles offer.

My original dilema is that muzzleloading and archery seasons were combined hereabouts, and rifles weren't allowed during regular season. Since I was bowhunting in M/L, and I needed a smoothie in regular - the choice was obvious. Then things changed. Now rifled M/L can be used in regular (and there is a bill to open rifles in formerly shotgun slug regions). I still have a 12 ga smoothbore, but I am switching to a .54 flintlock for most hunting. This will help you decide. When you go squirrel or bunny hunting do you take a .22LR or a shotgun? If you take a .22LR, you probably should stick to a rifle.

Several years ago I assembled a T/C New Englander from a kit. It was a shotgun with an optional rifle barrel. Unfortunately, it has been discontinued from what I can tell. What a shame, because it was perfect for someone who wanted both with minimal investment. (Though mine does not like patched round balls in the .50 cal rifle - out to 50 yards the 12 ga smoothbore shoots them better! It shoots Maxi-Hunters very well, so all is not lost).

If you opt for a smoothbore consider one of the Brown Bess musket copies. A musket has the advantage of using a honkin big chunk of flint, and even marginal priced ones get a good shower of sparks. For a rifle, I recommend you narrow down the field to some that appeal to you and ask here for any comments from owners. The Lyman Great Plains Rifle is a solid choice for not too much $$$. Check the classifieds here for used offerings.

 

[musketman]

(That's me and my favorite stump near a 'top secret' virgin hemlock section).

What Stumpkiller is not telling you is this...

In the very next picture, the wind blew the fodder away and revealed his hidden spot's location...

I have a friend, that has a friend, that works in the picture developing lab that ol' Stumpy uses...

Here's the next picture...
(It's no secret now, eh?) :haha: :winking:

 

[Stumpkiller]

N'yah n'yah, it's not in Binghamton, it's outside Owego.


D'OH!

Now who else here trusts ya enough to show you their favorite hunting spot?

 

I'll tell you ALL of mine. Success on 7' black Bears :bull: guaranteed, along with Trophy-Class Moose /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif and Mule Deer /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif. I'll also include elk, but couldn't guarantee trophy class antlers :: on elk. I only meat hunt elk (cows and calves) - too much climbing for my back in the area I hunt them to get trophy Bulls. :boohoo:

 

[musketman]

I'll tell you ALL of mine.

Daryl's secret moose, bear and yak hunting spot... :winking: :haha: :haha:

Now you know... :winking: