I not so fondly remember reloading my 12 double ML on the run chasing birds down a long ditch. Using an "english" charger on my snake pouch really helped. Usually got them when they came to the culvert and flew. Hated the ones that ran thru it!!! Just Running now is a fond memory as well.
Rooster down at dawn.
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No doubt about that. The only pheasant I've ever seen on our Michigan farm (released by the neighbor with cancer) was running through one of our fencerows with a hawk directly overhead.
Which means that on a per acre basis said:
Though I agree with the vast majority of what you've said, I have to take some issue with this, as my farming was inspired in large part by Salatin's methods, and I know of others who've tried the same. Salatin's success is largely due to his fame and its ability to attract literal herds of "interns" that work for free in hopes of learning to do the same thing. Without exception, every similar farm I've found has some combination of inherited or previously acquired wealth or land, free labor, or a significant operating loss.
Another often overlooked aspect of Salatin's methods is that he uses plenty of conventionally grown feed for his hogs and poultry, but his rhetoric convinces people to pay higher prices than that which many organic producers are capable of commanding. He also has no problem burning lots of diesel fuel to run his operation (particularly for spreading his "pigerator" compost.
In my own case, after 9 years of running the dairy (which was the core part of my operation), I realized that even while getting 5x the price of the conventional producers, I was unable to do much of anything beyond break even in the good years. I know we helped a lot of people and enjoyed good food ourselves, but it's simply not possible to compete with the price expectations set by industrialized methods.
Couldn't have said it any better myself!
Unbeknownst to many, bees collect precisely two things -- nectar and pollen. Nectar (i.e. sugar) is their fuel, and pollen is their protein. Corn tassels provide a rich source of pollen -- in fact I'd gladly post a video I took of my bees collecting this pollen if you doubt me. All conventional corn seed in the US is treated with neonicotinoids as well as numerous other pesticides. They remain systemic within the plant as it grows, which is why you rarely see much spraying aside from the initial herbicide applications. Most is also genetically modified to produce BT toxin (which has been shown to significantly alter the human gut biome that makes up something like 85% of the human immune system).
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There were many attempts to stock turkeys from flocks born in captivity. None survived. Biologists used cannon nets to capture wild turkeys feeding on bait and then relocated them to promising habitat. Their comeback story is encouraging and was a great success. Wild turkeys are vulnerable at night in their roost. Market hunters would kill turkeys at night using punt guns and multiple hunters, taking entire flocks in an instant. They were extirpated from AZ. All AZ birds are ancestors of relocated flocks. All AZ birds were gone by the 1920s. Now there are 200,000+.
JCKelly
45 Cal.
Some 50 years ago in York Co., PA, I used to slow down on my way to work to let Mrs. Pheasant cross the road with her kids. Near a public shooting preserve. Shot there in early morn on the way to work, until it was most clear to me my new wife didn't cook anything with #6 shot in it.
Then moved to S.E, Michigan where pheasants were near extinct. Now in downtown Rochester the honeybee (ever see one?) is extinct. over the last decade even the yellow jackets are gone.
I am of course certain it has nothing to do with the wonderful chemicals used around here to eliminate nasty bugs and weeds.
But there ain't no honey bees on my flowers. Nor do any nasty yellow jackets bother when I sit on my back deck.
No, Sir, I'll never believe this has anything to do with those wonderful chemicals used to Clean Up our environment.
Oh yeah, I am just a metallurgical engineer. But a thousand years ago I did take one course in Ecology, long, long, before the Press could even spell that word. And I have observed some things over the decades.
Then moved to S.E, Michigan where pheasants were near extinct. Now in downtown Rochester the honeybee (ever see one?) is extinct. over the last decade even the yellow jackets are gone.
I am of course certain it has nothing to do with the wonderful chemicals used around here to eliminate nasty bugs and weeds.
But there ain't no honey bees on my flowers. Nor do any nasty yellow jackets bother when I sit on my back deck.
No, Sir, I'll never believe this has anything to do with those wonderful chemicals used to Clean Up our environment.
Oh yeah, I am just a metallurgical engineer. But a thousand years ago I did take one course in Ecology, long, long, before the Press could even spell that word. And I have observed some things over the decades.
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Wild turkey populations are up? wonder what they are eating? Pheasant populations in the Dakotas are up? wonder what they are eating? Hawk populations are up? wonder what they are eating. Eagle populations are up? wonder what they are eating? Deer populations are up! Have to be careful to not hit them at dawn and dusk!
Why do all of you live in ecological deserts where you can't see wildlife while driving to work when I live in the corn belt where wildlife is more abundant than ever! I think they are thriving on Roundup and atrazine, I hope they increase rates so the populations explode!
Why do all of you live in ecological deserts where you can't see wildlife while driving to work when I live in the corn belt where wildlife is more abundant than ever! I think they are thriving on Roundup and atrazine, I hope they increase rates so the populations explode!
Maybe there are just too many people?
If we can't feed the population with what the land can produce on its own merits,,,, there are too many mouths to feed.
/QUOTE]
The following graph may be a upsetting shock to many and I am sorry to post it. If you study the curve it contains the real reason why things are changing so rapidly. Notice only the black plague caused a small flatline, Wars. famine and even the Spanish Flu Pandemic ( a REAL Pandemic) were insignificant, Sadly It may also be the reason "vaccination" may have an altogether opposite intent/effect if all life on this planet is to continue.
I try to concentrate on enjoying everything I can now that i am well into the 4th Quarter. I rediscovered BP/MLs and devote much time and derive much enjoyment from all aspects of it, I am sad that this is all happening on my watch.
This county is heavily farmed. Pheasants are gone and have been for decades and still no one knows why. But other game is abundant. The deer grow so big they look like mules. Last November, before dawn on a small two lane road, a buck challenged my car and hooked out a headlight with his antler. Turkey is common. Rabbits are a nuisance to every gardener I know. Squirrels are everywhere. Putting out a feeder will give lie to the rumor of a dearth of songbirds. Foxes and coyote abound. Hawks and eagles are far from unusual. Groundhogs are a nuisance. Farming has clearly made this an ecological desert - NOT.
Nothing to add to this wizzing match, there is a reason they call me stubby.
Perhaps someone living near you used to raise bees, but have now been displaced by suburban or urban sprawl. An important factor here is that honey bees are not native to North America. It might be helpful to mention where you live.
Where I am ( I split my time between NC and Colorado) , several neighbors keep bees, so they are in every field.
Wild game abounds today in much of the United States for several reasons.
First, is that there are virtually no mature first growth apex forests left in the United States. Most were logged of to make arable farmland, to build homes & factories, to build wooden sailing ships, and for various other things directly related to the beginning of, and the continuation of, the Industrial Revolution.
Vast numbers of wild game cannot be supported in old growth apex forests. There is insufficient sunlight reaching the forest floors in such forests to provide for habitat, and food sources for an abundant variety of wild game.
All game species require the marginal lands at the edges of the clearings/meadows in such forests, because that's where the food supply exists. It is the grasslands of every continent where historically huge numbers of a vast variety of wild game could once be found, and to some extent in Africa, can still today be found.
The population of whitetail deer in the United States is currently much greater than when European settlers first arrived in North America. The reasons are that *** 1.) whitetail deer are an incredibly resilient & adaptable species; capable of living in any modern city's suburbs *** 2.) those very suburbs provide an abundant variety of food plants that are quite tasty, and very nutritious, the exact equivalent to the margin lands that once existed in first growth apex forests *** 3.) wild animals are not stupid, and will willing forgo their traditional forest foods, for the nutrient dense landscaping around Jane & Joe Six-pack's suburban home *** 4.) the soybeans, wheat, barley, oats, rye, and corn commodity crops that are grown all across the United States are just like crack cocaine to wild animals *** 5.) Why wouldn't whitetail deer, and all the other game species mentioned in this thread thrive in a state where huge amounts of super nutrient dense grains are being grown? Modern food plot agriculture is nothing more than an attempt by late 20th, and early 21st Century, landowners trying to mimic the incredible variety of plants found per acre in an apex grassland ecosystem, where the average number of plant species was close to 150 *** 6.) Those abundant grain commodity crops also provide the same nutrient dense calories to everything from the smallest of the animals, up to the largest; with an accompanying increase in their numbers; thus giving rise to an exponential increase in predators who prey on those wild animals *** 7.) virtually all wild animals are as addicted to the sugars & carbohydrates contained in those grain/soybean commodity crops, as humans are *** 8.) so, is it any wonder that there are portions of the United States where there has been an exponential increase in wild populations? *** 9.) any species that consumes an overabundance of calories, especially addictive calories derived from domesticated grains, and compare the new food source to what that species has traditionally had to eat in the past, and you will see that species grow larger, and with a heavier layer of fat on its body *** 10.) it's not so much that humans have done anything particularly correct that is resulting in an overabundance of wild game animals, it's because we are growing too many nutrient dense commodity crops in a monoculture farming system where everything is geared to produce greater & greater yields from every single square foot of land that a farmer owns *** 11.) monoculture farming practices do not enhance our wild animal populations so much as they disrupt them. Blatant evidence of this is the non-historical migration of the coyote, a West-of-the-Mississipi River species, that due to exponential numbers of whitetail deer living East-of-the-Mississipi River, has caused the coyote to follow where there was an abundant food source. And, with that migration, those very adaptable coyotes have wreaked havoc on certain wild game populations in the Eastern United States. The Law of Unintended Consequences.
First, is that there are virtually no mature first growth apex forests left in the United States. Most were logged of to make arable farmland, to build homes & factories, to build wooden sailing ships, and for various other things directly related to the beginning of, and the continuation of, the Industrial Revolution.
Vast numbers of wild game cannot be supported in old growth apex forests. There is insufficient sunlight reaching the forest floors in such forests to provide for habitat, and food sources for an abundant variety of wild game.
All game species require the marginal lands at the edges of the clearings/meadows in such forests, because that's where the food supply exists. It is the grasslands of every continent where historically huge numbers of a vast variety of wild game could once be found, and to some extent in Africa, can still today be found.
The population of whitetail deer in the United States is currently much greater than when European settlers first arrived in North America. The reasons are that *** 1.) whitetail deer are an incredibly resilient & adaptable species; capable of living in any modern city's suburbs *** 2.) those very suburbs provide an abundant variety of food plants that are quite tasty, and very nutritious, the exact equivalent to the margin lands that once existed in first growth apex forests *** 3.) wild animals are not stupid, and will willing forgo their traditional forest foods, for the nutrient dense landscaping around Jane & Joe Six-pack's suburban home *** 4.) the soybeans, wheat, barley, oats, rye, and corn commodity crops that are grown all across the United States are just like crack cocaine to wild animals *** 5.) Why wouldn't whitetail deer, and all the other game species mentioned in this thread thrive in a state where huge amounts of super nutrient dense grains are being grown? Modern food plot agriculture is nothing more than an attempt by late 20th, and early 21st Century, landowners trying to mimic the incredible variety of plants found per acre in an apex grassland ecosystem, where the average number of plant species was close to 150 *** 6.) Those abundant grain commodity crops also provide the same nutrient dense calories to everything from the smallest of the animals, up to the largest; with an accompanying increase in their numbers; thus giving rise to an exponential increase in predators who prey on those wild animals *** 7.) virtually all wild animals are as addicted to the sugars & carbohydrates contained in those grain/soybean commodity crops, as humans are *** 8.) so, is it any wonder that there are portions of the United States where there has been an exponential increase in wild populations? *** 9.) any species that consumes an overabundance of calories, especially addictive calories derived from domesticated grains, and compare the new food source to what that species has traditionally had to eat in the past, and you will see that species grow larger, and with a heavier layer of fat on its body *** 10.) it's not so much that humans have done anything particularly correct that is resulting in an overabundance of wild game animals, it's because we are growing too many nutrient dense commodity crops in a monoculture farming system where everything is geared to produce greater & greater yields from every single square foot of land that a farmer owns *** 11.) monoculture farming practices do not enhance our wild animal populations so much as they disrupt them. Blatant evidence of this is the non-historical migration of the coyote, a West-of-the-Mississipi River species, that due to exponential numbers of whitetail deer living East-of-the-Mississipi River, has caused the coyote to follow where there was an abundant food source. And, with that migration, those very adaptable coyotes have wreaked havoc on certain wild game populations in the Eastern United States. The Law of Unintended Consequences.
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We have lots of bees around my place but that is partially due to the flowers I plant to attract them, and there are some hives some distance from me, and I forgot wild turkeys, when I was young there were virtually none and now they are so abundant that any Joe six-pack can harvest one if he wants. We don't have pheasants because we don't have fence rows, but we have bees, wild turkeys and eagles, that's pretty good I think.
JCKelly
45 Cal.
While we have Zero honeybees & other flying, pollinating insects, we do have a number of small deer herds eating everyone's flowers & other decorative plants. Also a few coyotes to eat small our small pets. Thanh you, Insurance Industry & State Police. Possums, the odd racoon & about One Zillion black squirrels.
But no more honey bees pollinating things in downtown Rochester, Michigan.
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Next spring plant some bee balm, purple coneflowers and some marigolds....
I will bet money you will see some honey bees next summer
I will bet money you will see some honey bees next summer
Sam squanch
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I know a guy who bought 200 acres locally, but very hard to get to. Middle of nowhere. Began a program of thinning raccoons, possums, and coyotes. And cats. The turkeys, quail, woodcocks, ect, thrived. In my opinion, hawks, owls, and even eagles have had their day, and need thinning out too. My friend lost 3 newborn calves to eagles.
Sam squanch
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And we need more deer shooting. Can’t even drive anywhere without almost hitting one..
Brokennock
Cannon
Where? I'd be happy to come help, lol
Brit, I hope I did not help hijack your thread. Enjoyed every post and opinion that got me to remembering things long gone. When I was a kid My daddy gave me a 20ga single barrel H&R shotgun and a brown canvas hunting coat. I could walk around the fields and get enough quail to feed the family in several outings. I remember reading in a book that stated "When animals free roaming cease to exist we're next". Look forward to some more of your adventures. THANKS
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