Round ball and 50 grains in a 50 cal. for whitetail ?

[Snake Pleskin]

I remember that the load for a .58 zouave was 50-60 gr with a "minie" the size of my thumb. It was the std load I believe in the Civil War. It killed plenty! We are infected with the disease of "if a little works, more must be better" its like magnumitis! Not necessary at all! My .50 -.54 get 60-70 gr max. That is all that is needed.(IMHO)

 

[Hayes Cooper]

I use 50gr of fffg in my .45. It does just fine.
I shot this buck with that load and the ball was recovered under the skin. It was a hard quartering away shot.

This is proof in the pudding! Nice deer!

 

[sheriff john]

80 grains of FFg in my .50 caplocks, FFFg in flinters for white tails w/ prbs. Try to make all heart shots, behind the "elbow". Our deer are all corn-fed, fat critters and seldom over 60 yards. That "crack" heard when the ball supposedly reaches the sound barrier is what I try to achieve with hunting loads. Expending energy inside the chest cavity, whether or not the ball exits is what I try to do..Anyway...

 

[Brian Anderson]

l was taught to shoot a ball into a clay bank or a piece of firewood , recover the ball, and when your ball is twice as wide and half as thick, you have a deer load

 

[hunter thompson]

YEAH it will kill if placed right...but SHOCK from speed is part of the factor more than a HOLE.ID rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.DO the right thing.100 GRAINS.

 

[TarponStalker]

No not 501. 50.

Haha. I was thinking you don’t look that old

 

[SDSmlf]

YEAH it will kill if placed right...but SHOCK from speed is part of the factor more than a HOLE.ID rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.DO the right thing.100 GRAINS.

Yep, just like the speed from a 200 FPS arrow is what kills…….

 

[Christophero]

"Yep, just like the speed from a 200 FPS arrow is what kills……."

Agreed. I don't expect a DRT with the sidelock. The shorter the run the better, but it is the leaking of the organs that do the killing work if the ball or bullet is placed well, just like an arrow or straight wall pistol round. These aren't HP rifles that can, but not always, kill with shock. Yet, they are effective when used right.
That said, I prefer enough umph to get through what needs moved out of the way to make those organs drain. I would keep a 50 grain load to about 50 yards, IMHO. It is amazing, though, to study the charts concerning the fps drop between the same round balls leaving the muzzle at different velocities. By 100 yards there isn't much difference in how fast they are still traveling. Heavy conicals retain their energy far better.

 

[SDSmlf]

Here is a chart Zonie posted more than once. In his example a 50 grain powder charge of 3F Goex under a 50 caliber roundball would leave the barrel at just under 1500 FPS and would be traveling at just under 1000 FPS at 100 yards. A 100 grains of powder would drive the same roundball at 2000 FPS as it left the barrel, and was whistling along at just over 1100 FPS at 100 yards. A little over 100 FPS faster than the same roundball fired with 50 grains of powder. That’s quite a bit more shock and awe at the 100 yard mark for doubling the powder charge, correct? Another way to look at it is the 50 grain ‘party popper’ load is about 250 FPS faster at the muzzle than the 100 grain load at 100 yards. Do the math.

All comes down to shot placement.

 

[hunter thompson]

Yep, just like the speed from a 200 FPS arrow is what kills…….

true but a arrow will penetrate kevlar and a bullet wont

 

[SDSmlf]

true but a arrow will penetrate kevlar and a bullet wont

You are possibly correct, though a deer hide is not like Kevlar nor are any of the deer I have seen wearing body armor. And please read my post above, #49 in this thread. Then talk about the difference in 50 roundball velocity at 100 yards pushed by 50 grains of powder and your recommended 100 grain powder charge.

DO the right thing.100 GRAINS.

A little over 100 FPS difference at 100 yards. How much difference will that have in penetration through the rib cage of a whitetail deer, particularly one not wearing a Kevlar vest?

It’s all in shot placement.

 

[hunter thompson]

Here is a chart Zonie posted more than once. In his example a 50 grain powder charge of 3F Goex under a 50 caliber roundball would leave the barrel at just under 1500 FPS and would be traveling at just under 1000 FPS at 100 yards. A 100 grains of powder would drive the same roundball at 2000 FPS as it left the barrel, and was whistling along at just over 1100 FPS at 100 yards. A little over 100 FPS faster than the same roundball fired with 50 grains of powder. That’s quite a bit more shock and awe at the 100 yard mark for doubling the powder charge, correct? Another way to look at it is the 50 grain ‘party popper’ load is about 250 FPS faster at the muzzle than the 100 grain load at 100 yards. Do the math.

All comes down to shot placement.

View attachment 155617

NICE THANKS

 

[RjSixgun]

I never had any problems with 45 grains of 3F and a 58 caliber minie

 

[smo]

I’ve killed several whitetail with 60 grn fffg loads in a .50 cal rifle with both neck and lung shots..

Shot placement is key…

My hunting/ all around shooting load is 70 grns fffg in my .54.

View attachment 155380

I should have stated that most of my hunting shots are within 60 yards or less..

And I’ve only lost one buck, he was shot at around 65 yards…working a licking branch scrape..

He ran a little over 100 yards into a deep , thick hollow with very little blood loss..
The leaves were just starting too fall and I searched for him for hours too no avail..
I found him a week later…

I was within 20 yards of his final resting place the day of the kill… just so thick I couldn’t see him..

Correction 2 bucks in 40 + years …

 

[MSW]

if this works for you, by all means go for it. i would work up the load which is the most accurate, and use that, since shot placement is what will get the job done when you want to make Bambi into little white packages...

one guy's opinion... free and doubtless well worth the price

 

[Kappa]

50 grain loads will kill deer at 50 yards. I wouldn't try beyond that distance however. I shoot 80 grains ffg out of my .54 caliber guns. I'm confident I can take deer at 100 yards if the shot presented itself.

Use same load literally knocks them over at 50 yards

 

[Mr. Flintlock]

Google Ron Spomer shocking bullet performance

 

[david58]

I normally shoot the same load at paper as I do deer. I can be thankful that my .50 plains rifle is heavy enough to damp some of the recoil. My process is to set up at 25 yards, and work the load until the group is tight. ON THIS PARTICULAR RIFLE, the best group is at 120gr with a .490 PRB. That's coming out of a 36" Sharon barrel, 1" .50 so nice and heavy.

Part of the equation is how much powder is being burned pushing the ball and how much is pushed out of the barrel to burn there. I suppose optimally one would want the last little bit of powder to burn just as the ball exits, but I've not really done the study on that one (and probably won't). At 120 gr of 3F in that 36" bbl, observers have told me there is no noticeable dumping of powder out the front (you can tell by the way the ejected powder burns as opposed to the muzzle blast).

Philosophically, I would not be hunting for my minimum load. I would rather be looking for the optimal load, which is likely not the same. Then shoot that load at all kinds of ranges, and learn your rifle - same load for a 25' tie-breaker shot and a 250 yard long gong. As an old and getting rapidly older fart, that's the way I like to approach things. Back when I could see and shot well, that formula worked. And this is all precisely worth what you paid for it....

 

[kyron4]

Plan to do some test this week , weather and work permitting.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

I would have thought that 50grs. was not enough. My first longrifle was (still have it) a traditions Pennsylvania Longrifle. It is actually most accurate with a 95gr. load, which is a heavy load. On the other hand, my Early Lancaster rifle by a private builder is most accurate with an 80gr. load. I've taken deer with both. If your rifle is accurate with that little, you should be fine up to about 50-yards. 75-yards will be stretching it a bit and shot placement will be key.

Have you worked up a load yet to find out what your gun is most accurate with? If not, you need to do that because just about every gun is different. If you still have the adjustable ramp rear sight on your rifle, take 3 to 5 shots at 25-yds at a target using your 50gr load. Don't worry about high or low, you want to get left or right fixed first. Ideally you should be a little high here. Once you have it on paper, measure the spread and jot it down.

Next go put the target at 50-yards and repeat. The pattern should be significantly wider at this point. Now raise up your charge in 5gr. steps firing at least 3 shots with each increase in load until your pattern gets smaller. Take notes at each step up. You will get to a point where that next 5gr increase in load opens up your pattern a bit. If you see that happening, make sure you repeat that same load with 3 more shots. Continue a couple of steps past that to see if it continues to open up the pattern. If so, make a note on how much you varied the pattern with 10gr. over your best load. So now you will know what your most accurate load is and also how much less accurate 10gr. above that load will be.

Finally set the target at either 75-yards or 100-yards. This is where you want to make your final sighting adjustments. You do need to be sure to take your shots when the wind isn't blowing because it will move your lead ball at these ranges. Adjust your sights using a bench rest until you're getting the spread on or around the bullseye. If you zero this for 75-yards, and get a decent spread, you're done for now. Make a powder measure that holds that amount of powder and go hunting. If you zero this at 100-yards and the spread has opened up significantly from the 50-yard spread, you may need to increase your load to tighten it up. You may also need to raise your rear site more to get it to the bullesye. Again, do the increase in 5gr. increments and see where that takes you. Don't be surprised if your most accurate load at 100-yards is another 10-grs. higher than at 50-yds.

You know that the path of the bullet will be in an arc because you can't fight gravity. If you are zeroed at 100-yards you will typically shoot low until you get to 25-yards, be high at 50-yards and usually highest at ~60-yds; and finally dead on with the point of impact (POI) matching the point of aim (POA) at 100yards.

How much low or high you are is going to depend upon your muzzle velocity. Below are a couple of charts where I presume you are getting 1,500 and 2,000 feet-per-second muzzle velocity. Below that I've done a 100-yard zero with both 2,000 and 2,200-fps muzzle velocities.

Here's a table showing 75-yard zero with a starting muzzle speed of 1,500-fps.

If you can reach 1,500fps with your load and you zero at 75-yards, the greatest deviation from your Point Of Aim will be 1.7" high between 39 and 49-yds. However, if you take a 100-yard shot that shot will end up 4.2 inches low at 100-yds.

Now lets see it at 2,000fps:

At 2,000 fps it will be off by just 1" high between 44 and 52-yds. That higher speed makes a big difference. There's less drop of the ball because it gets there faster.



Now looks at zero at 100-yards with a muzzle velocity of 2,000fps:

This will be dead-on of course at 100-yards but the biggest deviation is shooting 2.6" High between 54 and 64-yds. and then 2.5" low out at 115-yards.

If you can get the speed up to 2,200 feet zeroed in at 100-yards, you'll get the deviation down to just over 2" (2.1") out to almost 115-yards, which is considered a very flat trajectory for 100-yds..

So I would suggest find the loads that are most acurrate with your rifle first and then find out what your fps is with that load. Once you have that info it's a lot easier to figure out how much that most accurate load deviates from the point of aim at various distances. So the next thing you might want to do is find someone with a chronograph to see what your initial muzzle velocity is.

From the various ballistics I've run, if you really will only have a 75-yard shot at the longest, you should be able to reach that 1500fps muzzle velocity and have just a 1.7" deviation in the path of the ball. If you can get it up to 2,000-fps with a 75-yard zero, that's just an inch above POA - a very flat trajectory.