Round ball and 50 grains in a 50 cal. for whitetail ?

[Mr. Flintlock]

Got my load dialed in on my Traditions Kentucky rifle flintlock that I plan to use for deer hunting this season. A 50 grain charge of Goex FFG and a patched round ball shoots almost one hole groups at 25 and about 1 1/2" to 2" at 50. The groups begin to open up as I increase the charge. Is a 50 grain charge with a round ball enough for clean kills on a Midwestern whitetail given good shot placement ? Some guys in my circle keep telling me 70 grains is a minimum. Oh, shots will be no greater than 75 yards. -Thanks

50 grains is plenty.

 

[Mr. Flintlock]

So is there a large difference in accuracy with a 60 grain load vs. 50? Is there such a difference with a 70 grain load vs. 50 grains... in your rifle? I'm curious why you are asking about that particular load, is all.

In my state, the minimum charge is 60 grains, .40 caliber rifle up to .72 caliber rifle...., makes no difference. So..., I used 70 grains in my .50, and currently use 70 grains of 3Fg in my .54. The .530 round ball will pass through a deer broadside, striking ribs on both sides before exiting, at 110 yards, my farthest shot on a deer ever.

Why 70 for me? Well IF I ran into a DNR officer while hunting, and he questioned my load, I have a fixed amount measure, and I will gladly pour out an amount of powder and he can use his measure and test it. No worries. Now..., I knew when I made my measure that some of the commercially sold adjustable measures can be "off" a few grains, and there can be a problem with the accuracy of a measure if you don't tap the side when done measuring out a powder charge..., so I didn't want to make my measure for 60 grains, and find out that OOOPS what I was using to check my quantity was off by three or four grains.... using a 56 grain load was likely a DNR citation and a court date, But a 70 grain measure that was off, was still likely to be above the 60 grain minimum.....OH and my rifles so far have all shot very well with 70 grains of 3Fg GOEX.

So will 50 grains launching a 177 grains of lead, patched .490 round ball do the trick? It should, all other factors being correct for the shot. At 75 yards, there should still be enough power behind that ball to make a humane, quick kill.

I remember when Mark Baker, author of Sons of a Trackless Forest wrote about using 50 grains of 3Fg in his 50 caliber rifle for deer. Mr. Baker also wrote at that time, a column in Muzzleloader magazine. OH the hue and cry of unethicalness that went up when he wrote such! Dozens of guys busted Baker's chops about it...and none of the negative pundits asked at what range was Baker normally taking his deer. NONE. Mark was taking his deer at 50 yards and often even closer. He hunted a rather dense area of woods, and that was really his max line-of-sight. Folks backed off, but frankly, they really over reacted.

Further on a historic note, there was a time when flintlock hunters actually used rather light loads on deer. They didn't want a pass-through, they wanted to recover the ball, and add it to melted lead, and recast it. Lead was expensive, and sometimes hard to find. In fact I read an account where the guy was way out from settled areas, ended up with only one ball, and to keep from starving to death as he walked back as he was without horse, he used light loads, recovered the ball, and then used his teeth to reform the ball as close as he could into the shape of a sphere, so he could reuse it.

So anyway, if it hits where you point it and it knocks down the deer, you're fine.

OH my software says that at 75 yards your round ball should be going at just about 900 fps with that load, and my farthest shot on a deer mentioned above, my 70 grain load was doing just over that mark, too.

LD

What state do you live in?

 

[Snake Pleskin]

50 grains is plenty.

It will work fine. Some of our ML friends have "magnumitis" like people who shoot unmentionables! If 50 grs works ,100 grs. must be better?

 

[Harmonica Bob]

Got my load dialed in on my Traditions Kentucky rifle flintlock that I plan to use for deer hunting this season. A 50 grain charge of Goex FFG and a patched round ball shoots almost one hole groups at 25 and about 1 1/2" to 2" at 50. The groups begin to open up as I increase the charge. Is a 50 grain charge with a round ball enough for clean kills on a Midwestern whitetail given good shot placement ? Some guys in my circle keep telling me 70 grains is a minimum. Oh, shots will be no greater than 75 yards. -Thanks

I can't say that your light load won't work. I can only say that my very deadly and accurate deer loads were hotter. My .530 round balls on top of 80 gns FF would flatten out like a quarter on deer. I started very hot, and using less and less, 5 gns at a time, until I found the "optimum" load. I am not saying that my system is better, just that it worked very well for me.

 

[Flintlock]

Some of you don't take into consideration that many of our mid-western deer (where OP said he would be hunting) are half again to twice the size as some of your eastern or southern deer. What works on a dog size deer down south is not always the best bet for a 200lb. western or northern deer packing a very thick layer of tallow. I would experiment with other loads and patches or keep your shots under 50 yards.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

Some of you don't take into consideration that many of our mid-western deer (where OP said he would be hunting) are half again to twice the size as some of your eastern or southern deer. What works on a dog size deer down south is not always the best bet for a 200lb. western or northern deer packing a very thick layer of tallow. I would experiment with other loads and patches or keep your shots under 50 yards.

When I hunted in Penna, the deer in the mountains eating acorns and browsing were not nearly as big as the ones in the flat lands eating the farmers corn!!!

 

[Snake Pleskin]

I used 60-65 grs in my .50 and it seemed to work fine, but again, each shot is different and the animals ae different. make sure you are matching your load to your intended target,ie. big or small deer? If I had to go too high in my .50 I would just change to my .54 instead. I am not a fan of recoil.

 

[Bushfire]

It will work fine. Some of our ML friends have "magnumitis" like people who shoot unmentionables! If 50 grs works ,100 grs. must be better?

I'm sure you'd agree that an elk would take more to put down than a whitetail yearling, ergo energy transferred into the game has a bearing on its terminal performance. So yes 100gr will be better than 50gr. Does that mean 50gr won't work, no. But 100gr is still going to be better.

The inline magnum topic is something completely else. Any gun gets to a point of diminishing returns, snd running 150gr in a short barrel probably isn't going to give you much advantage over 100gr in terms of speed and energy compared to the step up from 50 to 100.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

I'm sure you'd agree that an elk would take more to put down than a whitetail yearling, ergo energy transferred into the game has a bearing on its terminal performance. So yes 100gr will be better than 50gr. Does that mean 50gr won't work, no. But 100gr is still going to be better.

The inline magnum topic is something completely else. Any gun gets to a point of diminishing returns, snd running 150gr in a short barrel probably isn't going to give you much advantage over 100gr in terms of speed and energy compared to the step up from 50 to 100.

I agree there is a big difference between Elk and Deer. I would feel comfortable using a load in the 60-65 gr area, which worked for me on Deer. I would recommend a .54 or .58 for Elk. I have never shot any ML with a charge of more than 80 grs. Could never find a sound reason to do so? The deer I hunted were never that big. Everyone's experience is different.

 

[TerryK]

Personally I would try a different diameter ball or different patch and try to get good accuracy with 70 grains. If the rifle shoots 50 good, then there is probably a good 70G laod combo. In my opinion, a clean kill is worth some range time.

 

[johnraleksa]

Well yes and no, I assume (you know that saying) there would not be a big difference, but I'm being told 70 grs. is a minimum. I guess what I was looking for was some confirmation from people who have used a 50 gr load on deer and their real world results, good or bad. I would hate to lose or wound a deer based on my own assumption. Sorry for any confusion.

I only have a 50 cal cap and ball rifle . I manly shot ttt7 or pyrodex,but tryed Blackpowder Geox not to long ago. 60 grains of Blackpowder and round ball, 50 yards went through a 2x6 then went in to a blackcheery log 1/2 inches deep.That will kill anything. At 75 yards it might not go all the way through a deer, but why would you want it to?

 

[Bushfire]

I agree there is a big difference between Elk and Deer. I would feel comfortable using a load in the 60-65 gr area, which worked for me on Deer. I would recommend a .54 or .58 for Elk. I have never shot any ML with a charge of more than 80 grs. Could never find a sound reason to do so? The deer I hunted were never that big. Everyone's experience is different.

I used elk and deer as an obvious difference. But even the same species between 30 yards and 150 yards is going to receive the ball differently depending on the energy it's receiving.

Where I live some country is thick but some is very open and shots can be longer. Trajectory and energy are good friends to have on side.

130gr 2F is my highest load - i was aware i was shooting but nothing too bad. My standard is 90-110gr for various guns, I'm not overly recoil sensitive so it doesn't bother me.

 

[Mike in FL]

Think about a black powder revolver, lie a River Old Army or a 1858 Remington replica. How many deer have been taken with one shot out of one of them? And those revolvers are way weaker than your rifle shooting 50 grains. You are good to go with that load. We don't have yo me macho about deer hunting. My sick grandmother can kill a deer. Its not that big of an accomplishment.

 

[Flintlock]

Think about a black powder revolver, lie a River Old Army or a 1858 Remington replica. How many deer have been taken with one shot out of one of them? And those revolvers are way weaker than your rifle shooting 50 grains. You are good to go with that load. We don't have yo me macho about deer hunting. My sick grandmother can kill a deer. Its not that big of an accomplishment.

And think about how many deer have been shot by wimpy loads and ran off to die or suffer.

 

[alcessapiens]

I use 60 gr. With a big minie (.58 p53) it’s plenty of power out to 100-150. With a .50 rb your ball will be traveling much faster so ought to do a fine job at 50-75 yds. It’s how well you shoot it that’s truly important.

 

[Dave Dworshak]

why use a light load? a few more grains wont beak the bank.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

What state do you live in?

Maryland

LD

 

[Mike in FL]

And think about how many deer have been shot by wimpy loads and ran off to die or suffer.

Not my me, not once in 60 years of hunting. A wounded but not recovered animal is ALWAYS the shooter's fault.

 

[Flintlock]

Not my me, not once in 60 years of hunting. A wounded but not recovered animal is ALWAYS the shooter's fault.

Well not many I think have been using a .44 revolver for 60 years but it is too wimpy for humane large deer and not legal I think in most states.

 

[kyron4]

Wow, my thread came back from the dead ! lol

I have since bump my load from 50 gr. of FFG to 60 gr. of FFFG . The 3f alone increases velocity and 10 more grains of it too.