Round ball in a choked bore?

[Razor62]

I keep hearing that one should never attempt to fire a PRB through a choked barrel. Never having owned a smoothbore muzzloader I'm curious as to the reason for this warning. Is this for safety reasons or merely for accuracy concerns?
Am I correct to assume that if one can load the ball then the gun should have no problem unloading that same ball so to speak? I can envision one safety issue whereby having to load a ball which had a small enough diameter that it would pass through the choked portion of the barrel would in turn be possibly loose enough in the breech to slip forward and off the powder charge which of course as we all know is a bad situation. Perhaps this is the reason for the warning?
I'm not questioning anyone's wisdom but merely trying to understand the reasoning behind it.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The reason you stated is more than enough to prevent me from trying to do it.

 

[Stubert]

Us an over shot wad on top of the ball, like they did back then.

 

[Ranger1759]

I don't have a problem with it....I have a Dixie 28 ga shotgun percussion, that has a modified choke....I just use .52 cal PRB and have never had a problem...

 

[Ft. Jefferson]

I agree with Ranger. Steel is stronger than either lead or cloth. However, the ball MUST stay tight on the powder! If ya don't trust that, then an OS card would be the answer.

 

[Stumpkiller]

They work in a jug choked barrel.

 

[GANGGREEN]

I hope this thread continues and more folks give their beliefs and some documented facts about the safety. I have no clue whether its safe or not but I'm building a 20 guage fowler with a jug-choked barrel right now. I certainly won't use the gun frequently for deer but I'd sure like to test it and maybe take one deer with a patched round ball if it's safe to do so.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well one needs to understand the choking methods used today. Some of the warnings that you hear are transferred from folks used to modern gun warnings, and applied (some correctly and some incorrectly) to a muzzleloader. This is what I was taught...

A modern choke restricts the barrel as it nears the last 2" of the bore, reducing the diameter from cylinder bore aka "no choke", which is also the condition of many BP smoothbore barrels.., no choke or cylinder bore.

So take a 12 gauge cylinder bore barrel. It should be .729 diameter. IF you then apply modern choke with say a screw in choke tube of a "full choke" on that barrel, the bore starts out at .729 but restricts itself by about .035 at the muzzle, so it's .694. Modern Foster or Brenneke slugs for 12 gauge guns are larger than .694, and shotguns at the muzzle tend to be thin, so they warn folks, "Don't shoot slugs through a full choke barrel". A "modified" choke for 12 gauge is often reduced to .709, so even that might be bad. Now suppose you made your own 12 gauge slug by reloading a shell and using a .710 ball placed in the shot cup..., it might be OK in the .709 modified choke barrel, but it has the same problem as the old rifled slugs when shooting it from the .694 full choke barrel. :shocked2:

And you know, out there in the wide wonderful world, you will probably find some guy who has a caplock muzzleloading shotgun with screw-in chokes, who figures that since his .710 ball won't fit in his barrel with the screw-in full choke, he will load it by removing the screw-in choke, load, then replace the full, screw-in choke. :youcrazy: Probably make a good YouTube video when he shoots it too. :shocked2: So they tell folks, "Don't do that." And they are right.

Now the earlier choking method is called "jug choking". Just before the barrel ends at the muzzle, the barrel is opened up a bit, by having a tiny bit of metal removed. The shot pellets when fired, encounter this wider space, the shot "column" expands to full the space, THEN as the shot passed beyond the wider space, it gets constricted back to the original diameter of the barrel, ..., this sudden constriction acts the same way as the modern constriction..., it "chokes" the shot column giving the shooter a denser pellet pattern at a longer range than a plain barrel.

What jug choking doesn't do is reduce the bore to a smaller diameter than "cylinder", so a .729 (12 gauge) bore will internally open to say .740 - .750 near the muzzle, but return to .729 at the muzzle. So you can shoot a patched or wadded round ball from a jugged choked bore and not harm the barrel. You can also use a large enough ball and patch or ball and wad combination, that will remain in contact with your main powder charge while moving through the woods.

LD

 

[Rifleman1776]

The only gun I ever sold that I was thrilled to get rid of was a Richland Arms (Pedersoli) 12 ga. (actually 14 ga.) double perc. shotgun. It was choked. And despite all the advice, techniques and naughty words, it was hard to get wads past the choke and load. Invariably, after the first shot the load in the unfired barrel moved forward and had to be reseated for safety. Lots of fuss and nonsense to do that as it required decapping. I would not trust a ball, with wad over it or not, to stay in place. IMHO, the idea is not a good one.

 

[Razor62]

Thank you folks very much. I have a much better understanding of this now and armed with this information I'll make the right choice when the time comes to build that shotgun that I've been wanting to build.

 

[GANGGREEN]

Excellent explanation Loyalist Dave. Thanks for easing my concerns.

 

[GANGGREEN]

I was just looking at Colerain's website and they have a large warning that round balls are NOT to be shot from their turkey choke barrels. Is this a case of them being overly cautious for legal reasons or are their turkey choke barrels something other than jug choked?

I'm building a fowler right now with a Colerain turkey choke barrel and I'd really like to know before I hurt myself. :wink:

 

[jdkerstetter]

Colerain's special turkey choke barrels are restriction choked, not jug choked. They are good barrels but they do recommend that only shot is used in them. IIRC the choke is quite a bit smaller than the .620 bore size...something in the .580+/- range.

They are highly regarded: http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/Gift.html

If I had a question as to why they feel you shouldn't shoot balls in them I would contact Scott at Colerain directly.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[GANGGREEN]

Thanks for the info J.D. and for the article (I'll read it shortly). Have you ever been to the Colerain factory? Will he show you what's going on in there? That's not far from some of my old stomping grounds and I constantly threaten to go down to see how Colerain barrels are made and to chat with the owner but I've never done it.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Factory? :haha: This is a two man operation most of the time. Really just a machine shop. Most of our barrel manufactures operate that way, Rayl, Hoyt, Getz, Rice, etc.

I've driven by it a dozen of times or more....no shingle hanging so you'd not know it's there. Timing has always been wrong and we haven't hooked up...they're self employed ya know. :wink:

I've talked on the phone with Scott Keller a few times...nice guy...generally in the evening after they're done running machines for the day and I don't get the impression they liked being interupted when they're working.


Enjoy, J.D.

 

[GANGGREEN]

Got it. I was sure it was a small operation but wasn't sure whether they welcomed visitors or not.

 

[Flintlock58]

I have a Jackie Brown flinter made with a shortened version of this barrel. ( shortened by my request at the factory ) With the choke restriction at the end of these barrels, I dont think they could be safely loaded with patch and ball. Any load small enough to pass thru the choke would nearly rattle around at the breech??? My opinion anyway. I love this gun. Patterns well and kilt its 1st turkey last spring.