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Crow#21957

50 Cal.
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How much of a difference will a couple thousands really make? Or even better can a perfect shooter which I'm using perfect just for sake of arguement.But could this shooter fire3 to 5 shots and clover leaf or better one hole with balls Weiging as much as 2 to 3 thousanths difference. Reason I ask such a question is I have a new 100 count that say 3.15 on the bag and I get occasional 3.11 some 3.12 some3.14 and 3.15. More 3.14 and 3.15 than anything.If they vary that much and really makes a difference how can a person ever get a gun sighted in and shooting good?
 
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How much of a difference will a couple thousands really make? Or even better can a perfect shooter which I'm using perfect just for sake of arguement.But could this shooter fire3 to 5 shots and clover leaf or better one hole with balls Weiging as much as 2 to 3 thousanths difference. Reason I ask such a question is I have a new 100 count that say 3.15 on the bag and I get occasional 3.11 some 3.12 some3.14 and 3.15. More 3.14 and 3.15 than anything.If they vary that much and really makes a difference how can a person ever get a gun sighted in and shooting good?
For the kind of shooting you and I do, my opinion is your comparison is insignificant. The big boys who shoot bench and have 40 lb barrels might tell you a different story for thier shooting.
Larry
 
Over 40 years shooting. I have cast the overwhelming majority of the balls I have shot, Have shot offhand, light bench. cross stick and primitive. I have NEVER weighed or measured any ball I have shot. Have shot lots of one hole groups.
 

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I have an old Lyman .490 mold for my 50 cal. longrifle . It throws .493 r/b. The Lee mold I replaced the Lyman with , will make .490 balls all day. The .493's , cause intermittent patch cutting at the muzzle , when loading. My barrel likes .490's. , w/ .012 patch.
 
Pm
How much of a difference will a couple thousands really make? Or even better can a perfect shooter which I'm using perfect just for sake of arguement.But could this shooter fire3 to 5 shots and clover leaf or better one hole with balls Weiging as much as 2 to 3 thousanths difference. Reason I ask such a question is I have a new 100 count that say 3.15 on the bag and I get occasional 3.11 some 3.12 some3.14 and 3.15. More 3.14 and 3.15 than anything.If they vary that much and really makes a difference how can a person ever get a gun sighted in and shooting good?
This is the old incontinence question as the answer always begins with, "It depends,". For most of the time, we are engaged in recreational shooting and as @Larry (Omaha) observed, those tiny differences don't matter. Even for hunting and the goal is minute of squirrel's head those differences won't prevent one from filling the hunting bag. It is when the patches are being cut as on @oldwood's case, then there can be concern that the crown at the muzzle needs smoothing or it's time for a new mold. The other case is the chasing of very tiny groups. Then the weight of the ball will matter.

At this point, Crow, don't let the differences you see concern you until you have shot a few targets.
 
How much of a difference will a couple thousands really make? Or even better can a perfect shooter which I'm using perfect just for sake of arguement.But could this shooter fire3 to 5 shots and clover leaf or better one hole with balls Weiging as much as 2 to 3 thousanths difference. Reason I ask such a question is I have a new 100 count that say 3.15 on the bag and I get occasional 3.11 some 3.12 some3.14 and 3.15. More 3.14 and 3.15 than anything.If they vary that much and really makes a difference how can a person ever get a gun sighted in and shooting good?
Size does matter ,if you patch with a certain thickness ,what happens is undersize and your patch does not fill grooves hence gas cutting or too fat good chance of patch damage and weight matters . When casting 500gr+ conicals or paper patch bullets I group 1/2 grain 1-5 and 2nd group 5-10 (100 per session) and end up with 3/4 groups compression casting . RB are on a smaller scale so less difference but don' say weight doesn't matter cause it
does ( just not as much) . Not horse shoes where leaners count , just ringers/Ed
 
Guess it depends on the yardage !/Ed
You may be right about the distance. most round ball shooting only goes out to 100 yards. While I don't measure or weigh any balls I make I do look at every ball I cast. If it doesn't look right { I can't really explain what I am looking for } or if it has a hole in the sprue it goes back in the pot. Also I only use 1 cavity molds. I don't have any experience shooting bullets in muzzleloaders yet. I did finish a rifle last fall with a .45 cal. fast twist bullet barrel which I haven't had a chance to shoot yet. Hopefully I will get the chance to take it to the range soon, I intend to take it out to 300 yards. As with any of my rifles I will do whatever it takes to get the best accuracy possible. I have already found that it is a lot harder to cast a 350 grain bullets than round balls. My rejection rate casting the bullets is a lot higher than casting balls.
 
You may be right about the distance. most round ball shooting only goes out to 100 yards. While I don't measure or weigh any balls I make I do look at every ball I cast. If it doesn't look right { I can't really explain what I am looking for } or if it has a hole in the sprue it goes back in the pot. Also I only use 1 cavity molds. I don't have any experience shooting bullets in muzzleloaders yet. I did finish a rifle last fall with a .45 cal. fast twist bullet barrel which I haven't had a chance to shoot yet. Hopefully I will get the chance to take it to the range soon, I intend to take it out to 300 yards. As with any of my rifles I will do whatever it takes to get the best accuracy possible. I have already found that it is a lot harder to cast a 350 grain bullets than round balls. My rejection rate casting the bullets is a lot higher than casting balls.
Like round ball shooting (well ), casting conicals is similar as in doing the same thing over and over . The 1st thing is with pure cast hot and as the pot goes down reduce heat to maintain sameness /if not get a temp gage /ladle pour in single cavity quality molds (I like BACO) and get a rhythm going and compression casting is nothing more than holding sprue nipple in matching mold for 10 seconds (important for fill out with pure) I use a Lee pot and they work well/Ed
 
The variance in the round ball you have (.311-.315) is not good and will create inconsistency when you load: some will load easier, some harder. It can also affect your accuracy.

Such large variations are usually caused by using range scrap to cast without regard for hardness. Buy your roundball somewhere else next time.
 
To use your m/loader to it's best potential , make sure your balls , patch , and consistent powder charges , are correct for the barrel you are using. Use soft lead in a rifled bore , smooth bores matter less about hardness of lead. ....LOL
 
I traded turkey feathers for a Lyman .530 mold, I could tell by looking at the balls the mold cast that they were off center. The balls measure .530 on one side and .527 on the other side. I suspect I had been had on the trade; I was not expecting a flawed mold. When I test shot the balls, they shot like the balls out of my Lee .530 mold and grouped well.
 
All things considered the more consistent your load the more consistent your results should be. Hard core blood shooters shooting their top scores weigh their charge, have copper tubes to load through so an grain of powder doesn’t stick some where in the barrel, false muzzle and other tricks to make sure their loads are as consistent as humanly possible. Shot in a vacuum x load should produce x velocity and follow the same path with mathematical precision. Just Newton on the bench.
In real life warm day is different than cold. High humidity differs from low.
Still the more consistent the better.
On a traditional rifle the sights are crude. We are loading by volume, spit at the range or a better lube on a hunt. Patch one may be lubed more then patch two, or less. Even if you swab the bore your never as clean a your fist shot.
Constancy counts, big time.
Yet in near fifty years I never weighed a ball.
They have made scales accurate to a tenth of a grain for centuries, but you don’t see them in trading list until the gold rush. And they weren’t used for base metals.
I inspect the ball. Is it frosty or wrinkly, do I see an arid hole? Back in the pot.
Clean and smooth, in the bag.
That said folks who weigh ball no doubt will out shoot me. That’s ok.
What counts to you?
Are you happy if your palm covers your group? Vs are you unhappy if your thumb covers your group but not your pinky.
 
The variance in the round ball you have (.311-.315) is not good and will create inconsistency when you load: some will load easier, some harder. It can also affect your accuracy.

Such large variations are usually caused by using range scrap to cast without regard for hardness. Buy your roundball somewhere else next time.
I don't see any company making balls for sale using range scrap, just don't see that as a reliable source. All manufacturing is done to acceptable tolerances of plus or minus a number over or under the size. Any tool being used to make a product usually starts out oversize and as it is used and the wear involved it gradually wears until it goes out of tolerance and has to be replaced. .004 is not that large a variation. Then you add that the company is probably using gang molds you are going to have variations in the size of the cavities, heat variations in the mold and others. If you expect to get a box of balls all the exact same size then you better be prepared to pay a whole lot more for that box of balls.
 
All things considered the more consistent your load the more consistent your results should be. Hard core blood shooters shooting their top scores weigh their charge, have copper tubes to load through so an grain of powder doesn’t stick some where in the barrel, false muzzle and other tricks to make sure their loads are as consistent as humanly possible. Shot in a vacuum x load should produce x velocity and follow the same path with mathematical precision. Just Newton on the bench.
In real life warm day is different than cold. High humidity differs from low.
Still the more consistent the better.
On a traditional rifle the sights are crude. We are loading by volume, spit at the range or a better lube on a hunt. Patch one may be lubed more then patch two, or less. Even if you swab the bore your never as clean a your fist shot.
Constancy counts, big time.
Yet in near fifty years I never weighed a ball.
They have made scales accurate to a tenth of a grain for centuries, but you don’t see them in trading list until the gold rush. And they weren’t used for base metals.
I inspect the ball. Is it frosty or wrinkly, do I see an arid hole? Back in the pot.
Clean and smooth, in the bag.
That said folks who weigh ball no doubt will out shoot me. That’s ok.
What counts to you?
Are you happy if your palm covers your group? Vs are you unhappy if your thumb covers your group but not your pinky.
When I first got interested in shooting cross sticks some 40 years back I didn't have a lot of money to spend so I got what I could afford. Got a 1 inch 45 cal. Dixie Gun Works barrel, A Mule Ear lock and a set of Lyman sights. Never weighed or measured anything. Well the guy who had been the top shooter in those matches had a custom made inline with the expensive target sight and did all the things you described of the die hard shooter. Well I drove him crazy because I out shot him every time he showed up at a match. The truth was he beat himself. I usually shot my matches on Friday, The first thing he did when he got to the range was to check the score board to see what I had already shot. Instead of concentrating on shooting a good target he was chasing my score.
There are just too many variables to try and control them all. There can even be variations in powder from different lots.
 
Pure lead will not frost and it likes to be cast hot, around 800 degrees. Use a ladle and hold the ladle tight to the mold long enough for the ball to take all the lead it needs from the ladle, NOT the sprue. I cast many bullets and balls, some are very heavy. You can judge hold time by looking in the ladle when it is against the mold. You will see the lead go down, stop and go down more as the ball cools. That is your time. I cast a full 20# pot without a reject.
 
How much of a difference will a couple thousands really make? Or even better can a perfect shooter which I'm using perfect just for sake of arguement.But could this shooter fire3 to 5 shots and clover leaf or better one hole with balls Weiging as much as 2 to 3 thousanths difference. Reason I ask such a question is I have a new 100 count that say 3.15 on the bag and I get occasional 3.11 some 3.12 some3.14 and 3.15. More 3.14 and 3.15 than anything.If they vary that much and really makes a difference how can a person ever get a gun sighted in and shooting good?
Not to be picky but you do need to pay attention to your decimal point in your numbers. This is unless you are shooting a cannon. I think you mean to say 0.311" - 0.315" ;).
 
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