Round ball range

[faw3]

I got moved, oh well I was wrong about the war it was a flintlock but war of 1812, that the 600 yder was made . (thanks to Gary) Fred :hatsoff:

 

[hawkeye1755]

600 yards is 600 yards. It doesn't matter if it was 1776 or 1812.With open sights it were a great shot.
One of a thousend? :haha:
Had they peep sights at that time or when did they start with the peep sights? :hmm:
:hatsoff:

 

[faw3]

Hard to belive but yes and even a scope was being worked on in 1770s too! Fred :hatsoff:

 

[Wes/Tex]

Only true peep-sight I've ever seen was on a Jaeger rifle of AWI vintage. There's a Pennsylvania rifle in one of my books that has a rather unique sight cover. Basically, it's a rectangle of iron sheeting that's been bent to form a cover over the top of the barrel, about 10 to 12 inches long. Not sure how it's attached to the sides of the barrel (may only be slipped in along the barrel sides) and makes a tunnel along the barrel top with a few holes drilled above rear sight. It would make the rear sight 'clearer' though wouldn't do anything peep-sight wise.

 

[faw3]

the 2 Ive seen pics of are a bar type like on the later underhammers and other target rifles of the 1830s but didnt have a way to elevate them, and didnt show the front at all. The Jae's are the first that would come to mind but these 2 are of Penn type rifle, late 1790s. The telescopic sight is in MB April 2001, work and test done here in the USA Dec 1775 to at least March 2, 76. Scoped flintlocks that are PC :rotf: bet that will get someone going :cursing: Try the March 2001 MB for a good short history on Long Range Military sights from 360 B.C. on up to CW. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[shmrck1]

To all,
This has been a very interesting, informative,
and civil thread...Thanks to all who are participating.
snake-eyes :hatsoff:

 

[hawkeye1755]

Scoped flintlocks that are PC :rotf: bet that will get someone going :cursing:

Yip, that will start a new discussion. :yakyak:
But did anybody know when the first peep sights shows up? :hmm:
Wes/Tex said:
Only true peep-sight I've ever seen was on a Jaeger rifle of AWI vintage.
:hatsoff:

 

[faw3]

Only 2 Ive seen have been in MB that have been on 1700s American rifles, and before that the Jae, the notes Ive written from different things just goes back to the old, very old cross bows. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[ResearchPress]

I have to wonder about what we think of now as long range, and how these folks back then really thought about it?

For an historical perspective on long range shooting, see the following on my web site:
www.lrml.org/historical/longrange/history.htm

Mostly from a European perspective but you may find it interesting.

David

www.researchpress.co.uk | www.lrml.org

 

[faw3]

Much thanks for that, Gary has put me on to some books that seem to say 500 yards or more was done during the Rev War, my big " Goof" was thinking they used small cal rifles not some like Washingtons 2oz sharpshooter rifle, but most are smaller a 50 to 60 cal ball is going to knock ya over at 500 even going slow,( the arch of that thing must of got ya in he top of the head!) :rotf: Fred :hatsoff:

 

The Brits knew all about rifles, had a standard issue rifle and a tactical doctrine for its use. Most British regiments had a rifle company, usually of about 10 to 15 men. In peace time the rifles were kept in storage and the skirmishers were issued fusils, muskets of smaller caliber than the regulation land pattern muskets. Hessian soldiers, altho initially armed with rifles, were re equipped with muskets because their jeagers were found to be usless for military service and very few, if any, authenticated guns have survived to the present.

Washington disbanded his rifle companies at Valley Forge. Rifles were mostly used in the battles in the southern colonies. The book The Gunsmith Of Grenville County by Alexander has a chapter summerizing rifle use in the Revolutionary War.

The sectional density of a round ball increases with diameter. Larger caliber round balls will be effective at longer ranges.

 

[k.jacobfrost]

As far as the earliest peep sights, the earliest thing that would closely resemble one today was on matchlocks. A lot of them had a small tube attached to the barrel just before the tang. It was intended to hold the slow match to help keep it from falling (which could have some disastrous outcomes). There are a few still in existence, dating around the 14th century, that had a small washer welded onto the end making for a vary good sight. If by vary strict definitions this did not constitute a peep sight it would at least be a predecessor to one.

Just my two scents.
Frost

 

[faw3]

:hmm:

 

[CrackStock]

There are peep sights on crossbows from the middle ages.

CS

 

[J.D.]

I seem to remember reading about Walter Kline shooting an original Rev War longrifle at a redcoat torso target at 600 yards, to prove the tales of long range shooting to be true. I believe Kline hit 6 of 10 shots at 600 yards, but I don't remember what caliber the rifle was, charge weight, or if shooting was done from a rest.

That's good shootin'.
J.D.

 

[gmww]

He probably would have hit 10/10 if they all lined up like they did. :hmm:

 

[Slamfire]

I seem to remember reading about Walter Kline shooting an original Rev War longrifle at a redcoat torso target at 600 yards, to prove the tales of long range shooting to be true. I believe Kline hit 6 of 10 shots at 600 yards, but I don't remember what caliber the rifle was, charge weight, or if shooting was done from a rest.

That's good shootin'.
J.D.

Archeologists have found conicals on the field at Saratoga. :winking:

 

[ResearchPress]

Do you know what form these conicals were?

David

 

[ResearchPress]

I seem to remember reading about Walter Kline shooting an original Rev War longrifle at a redcoat torso target at 600 yards, to prove the tales of long range shooting to be true. I believe Kline hit 6 of 10 shots at 600 yards, but I don't remember what caliber the rifle was, charge weight, or if shooting was done from a rest.

That was pretty good shooting then!

Tests were carried out at Harper's Ferry in 1854 comparing patched roundball, the Pritchett bullet and Burton designed 'Minie' style bullet. Firing was from a fixed rest at a target eight feet square. Calibre was .54. Rifles with 3, 5 and 7 grooves were fired and with depth of grooves .01", .015" and .20". A report on the testing noted:

"At 400 yards, the flight of the round ball was so wild that all further practice with it was suspended".

David

 

[faw3]

Archeologists have found conicals on the field at Saratoga. I'd like to know this one too ! :hmm:
At 400 yards, the flight of the round ball was so wild that all further practice with it was suspended". Well Im going to have to belive " Cline on this one, " Proveing the Accuracy By Test" from the siegen of Fort Meigs, Kentuck Kirk shot a Indian across the Maumee River, about 600yds. Cline tryed it with a 40" barreled flintlock shooting a 220 gr ball ( about 53 cal ) a prim charge of 25grs 3f and 50grs 1f on that, everyone talked about theyed walk over "after you fire" and see where it hit, the first was about a foot low, 4 of the 10 would of hit a man, one went into the ground 6" putting a man out of action, if not killing him. All that aside, they must of had some of those test rigged, back when I worked on a off shore rig it wasnt nothing to hit a 50 gal drum with the 58 at 300 to 500 yds out in calm sea's. Fred :hatsoff: Edit..the trick to that was aim at the barrel then pull the tip of your sight up to the horizen, just about the right arch to send the ball on target. The splash from 62s and bigger looked like somethin from " Sink the Bismark"