Round Bottom Rifling?

[54ball]

Did I make a good choice? Am I a fool, should I ask for square bottom rifling? Or for my usage would round be better? Also I plan to come the muzzle so I won’t need to carry a starter and I hear the old timers never used a starter so it’s more period.

Thoughts?

OK I get the Period thing but....
Coning so you do not have to carry a short starter is robbing Peter to pay Paul in the strictly PC sense.
There is a debate about coned rifles and what exactly it is. Some rifles show evidence of possible coning....most do not.

Those that do....just what is it?

Is it wear?
Is it repaired wear?
Is it coning for easier loading?

A few old "Germanic" influenced American rifles will show decorative Crowns where shapes are filed into the grooves at the muzzle. This can be very elaborate.
Is this coning? No.

For some reason RCA 124 the "Free Born Rifle" comes to my mind.
In the latest editions of Rifles of Colonial America, this rifle has a 44" .54ish barrel with that highly decorative crown filing.

In the older 1970's editions this same rifle has a 36" barrel with little if any crown! :shocked2: :hmm:

This rifle was "stretched" within the last 40 years.

You are having an Appalachian Poor boy built. While one should never say never, personally I have no knowledge of a Appalachian type rifle being "coned".
Many will have muzzle decoration...dots...circles, sometimes stars...."Hex" marks....but I can't recall reading or seeing any that are coned.

I have seen quite a few small bore rifles of the late flint/percussion period with no crown! IE The barrel looks as if it's simply cut off ....flat.
Here is my Jacob Roosa from 1840....the only original I own....
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr

The rifling on this little rifle is worn. It has been unbreeched and inspected as the former owner wanted to make a shooter out of if. It shows no evidence of being coned and the crown is minimal.

In my opinion this typical of the period for a common rifle....IE no cone....minimal crown.
So it's incorrect in my opinion to "cone" a rifle for "Period Correct" reasons especially from this era (1820-1850) and class (Appalachian back country) of rifle.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thank you so much, fellas! As for now I think I oughtint cone when it arrives.

As for starters, I assume and have read the old timers most likely used a ball/patch combo looser than what we do now. Perhaps today’s modern shooters are concerned with the toppist of accuracy at the forefront, so we like it tight today.

I recall in Ned Roberts book The Muzzle Loading Cap Lock Rifle an original starter probably from the later 19th century that looked like a wooden dresser drawer knob with a vertical shaft running out the bottom, the top being mostly flat. It lacked the little brass “nubbin” common on modern starters to first seat the ball in the crown, and wasn’t the big ungainly ball end type.

While I’ve no clue if such a starter would have been in use during the 1830s to 1840s, the period I am basing my rifle and accouterments from (the very late flint period), it would seem to be better than today’s ball end types.

How needed, then, is the brass bit to initially seat the ball below the muzzle? Could it be deleted, instead going for this type with just a vertical shaft and a flattened top?

If going with a starter, I’d prefer one of a compact style to fit neatly in my shooting pouch and one as historically correct as can be, though it does seem starters of any design were rare or not used at all before the mid 19th century.

 

[Zonie]

Several others have mentioned that the round bottom rifling is very accurate, the fouling from a shot seems to be less restrictive when follow up shots are loaded and round bottom rifling is easier to clean.

I own several rifles with round bottom rifling in the barrels and I agree with each of these positive points.

Although some might think this is silly, there is another thing I like about this kind of rifling.

It looks neat!

I've had many people look down the barrel on these guns and say, "Whoa! WOW! I've NEVER seen rifling like that! What is it?"

For those of us who like to shoot the breeze with interested people, it gives us a opportunity to meet people and talk about our favorite subject. :grin:

 

[Stumpkiller]

If L.C. Rice is doing your barrel - instead of coning it ask for his medium radius crown.

I can thumb start 0.530" balls and 0.017" patching in mine with no cone and don't bother carrying a short starter. It is just a smooth radius at the muzzle (and less prone to damage).

 

[zimmerstutzen]

When it comes to tightness of the pacthed and ball combination, I think many use a combination that is too tight. They need a short starter and some actually use a mallet to pound the ball into the rifling. With soft lead, that just deforms the ball and throws accuracy to crap. Colonial shooters had no tight woven pillow ticking. They had coarsely woven "home spun" or finely woven linen and silk. Both tight weaves but thin. With the shallow round bottom rifling in my H&H barrel, the best accuracy (a 45 cal) was from a .440 ball and thick cotton flannel, or a 445 ball and thin cotton muslin material. (about 6 thousandths.) Neither load required a mallet and although I usually used a starter, those combinations could be thumb started with just a little pressure. I used a starter to push the ball a couple inches down, simply to make using the ram rod easier. Trying to center a ram rod on a ball sitting at the muzzle and then raising the hands up to ram the ball is a little more difficult.

 

[smo]

I carry a small wooden crab mallet in my bag for a short starter.
PC/HC ???? It’s wood! LOL

It’s carried in my belt bag along with my patches and round ball’s .

My shoulder bag carries my flint wallet , it contains extra flints and the essential tools needed to service my gun.
My flint wallet is wrapped in my cows knee and placed in the bottom of the bag.
It also carries a small bottle of denatured alcohol and a back up powder charger(small horn).
The bag also has a small knife attached to it shoulder strap.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I heard strange stories about you Tennesseans. Yer pretty far from the coast to have blue crabs. And if the other kind of crabs require a mallet.... Well ouch!

 

[smo]

I heard strange stories about you Tennesseans. Yer pretty far from the coast to have blue crabs. And if the other kind of crabs require a mallet.... Well ouch!

:rotf: I figured the mallet was better than my hawk! :haha:

I spent a lot of time South of Miami too. :td:

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

So, would a short starter be PC for an 1830s or 40s flintlock shooter? If so, what type?

 

[Elnathan]

So, would a short starter be PC for an 1830s or 40s flintlock shooter? If so, what type?

My guess would be that this is as good as any: https://www.nps.gov/museum/exhibits/valley_forge/exb/Making_an_Army/Weapons/VAFO00001311_D_1.html

Ignore the dates - Neumann himself is careful not give a date in Collector's Encyclopedia, indicating that he was illustrating it as an example of what could have been used, not claiming that the specific artifact illustrated actually dated to the 18th century.

 

[nkbj]

Round bottom is real good.

 

[Heelerau]

I have an early Lancaster with a Collerain barrel round grooving, I have another with a Douglas barrel and square rifling, both rifles load and shoot as well as each other. I guess they each have their own quirks. Both rifles are tack drivers.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Bench them at 100 yds and fire them alternately for about 200 shots each on 100 yd targets, keeping track of the long haul scores. Then tell us what the scores are. Most shooters are surprised to learn that one comes out at least a few percentage points better than the other. Some shooters find a significant difference that they thought did not exist.

 

[Scota4570]

Not all RB is the same. Wide grooves and narrow lands are probably as good as a regular barrel. I have one in 45 cal. The lands are wide and the grooves are narrow and deep. It is the worst shooting ML barrel I have ever owned. No patch and ball combo shoot well.

I will never buy another RB barrel.