Roundball Question

[sduve]

My son will be hunting with his .50 cal CVA Youth Hunter percussion rifle this weekend. He is nine so I'm trying to find a happy medium concerning recoil. With a 50 yd zero, is a patched roundball atop 70 gr Pyro RS enough punch for deer to say 60 yards with lung shots?

 

[Zonie]

Just my opnion but, my .50 cal gives 1550 FPS velocity at 3 yards range (cronographed). This is with a 60 grain RS load.

This velocity will drop to 1117 FPS with 491 Ft/Lb of energy at 50 yards. At 60 yards the velocity will be 1070 FPS with 451 Ft/Lb of energy.

IMO, that kind of energy is more than equivalent to shooting the deer thru the lungs at point blank range with a 1911 .45 Automatic. IMO, That hit would put a deer down.
When I say more than equivalent, I am refering to the effect the size of the ball has.
Several people (including me) feel the size of the ball has as much to do with pure "Killing Power" as Ft/Lbs of energy. This is especially true when one remembers that most of the energy a modern bullet has at 2800 FPS is wasted on the tree or dirt bank on the far side of the deer.

A seldom looked at method of determining killing power is based on momentum X Caliber. This is the velocity times the weight of the ball X the caliber.
It gives some interesting results which come very close to duplicating what people have seen in real life hunting situations.

By the way, I used the 1550 FPS value because your load will be quite a bit faster than that. That way, it is easy to see that out to 60 yards, with a WELL PLACED shot, you should have success. ::

 

[Keith]

IMO, that will work. Shot placement is everything of course. Don't try to stretch the range with that load. :m2c:
Good Luck.

 

[mec]

guy at our range has a .40 tc and shoots ball. It will go all the way through our little deer and kills them very well too.

 

[ndbilly]

Just my opnion but, my .50 cal gives 1550 FPS velocity at 3 yards range (cronographed). This is with a 60 grain RS load.

This velocity will drop to 1117 FPS with 491 Ft/Lb of energy at 50 yards. At 60 yards the velocity will be 1070 FPS with 451 Ft/Lb of energy.

IMO, that kind of energy is more than equivalent to shooting the deer thru the lungs at point blank range with a 1911 .45 Automatic. IMO, That hit would put a deer down.
When I say more than equivalent, I am refering to the effect the size of the ball has.
Several people (including me) feel the size of the ball has as much to do with pure "Killing Power" as Ft/Lbs of energy. This is especially true when one remembers that most of the energy a modern bullet has at 2800 FPS is wasted on the tree or dirt bank on the far side of the deer.

A seldom looked at method of determining killing power is based on momentum X Caliber. This is the velocity times the weight of the ball X the caliber.
It gives some interesting results which come very close to duplicating what people have seen in real life hunting situations.

By the way, I used the 1550 FPS value because your load will be quite a bit faster than that. That way, it is easy to see that out to 60 yards, with a WELL PLACED shot, you should have success. ::

I get a huge number (136,000) when I multiply 1600 fps by 170 gr. by .50 cal., rounding the first two multipliers slightly. Is there some conversion to a common factor here that I'm missing? Also, what does the formula measure? Thanks.

 

[shotgunner]

Shot placement. period. stay within range (60 yards or less) and it will be a dead deer. Chronograph , smonograph.

just my 2 cents

 

[shotgunner]

Hey Fellas!

Let's kill us a deer. This numerical BS is a lot of fun but it doesn't put meat on the table. Practical info is wanted here . . .

 

[robinghewitt]

I get a huge number (136,000) when I multiply 1600 fps by 170 gr. by .50 cal., rounding the first two multipliers slightly. Is there some conversion to a common factor here that I'm missing? Also, what does the formula measure? Thanks.

This mass times velocity is pure Newton, it's his equal and opposite reaction thing. Use any units you want, just be consistant.

eg: If your gun is 500 times heavier than the bullet then it will recoil at muzzle velocity/500, all you have to do is catch it ::

:m2c:

 

[Zonie]

ndbilly: As Squire R mentioned it is another form of looking at energy which gets into Newtons laws of Physics, coupled with the diameter of the projectiles diameter.
Here's a link to another post I just did.

numbers and things

The value is only used for a comparison of killing (or knock down) power. It serves a purpose when comparing old fashoned roundball guns, with modern high velocity guns (or other roundball guns).

I have seen this calculation used where the author divided the answer by 7000 to get a value in Pounds per second per inch of caliber rather than my grains per second per inch of caliber, but sense the number is only good for comparing, I don't see any value in the extra division.

 

[Slamfire]

I can find no correlation between physical energy figures and knock down or killing power. Bullet placement is all important. I killed my first deer, admittedly small, with a .32-20, she went right over on her nose. Deer shot with much more powerful cartridges have run off for up to 80 yards. There ain't no tellin' what an individual animal might do. :results:

 

sudve - - - absolutley! Good luck!
: Ft. lbs. of engergy doesn't kill the deer - a 1/2" hole through the lungs will.
: If 300 ft. lbs. can kill a 1,000 lbs. moose within 40 yds. of where it was standing when hit,(170yd..54RB, 3wks ago) your load with approximately 40 to 600ft. lbs. should do the trick just fine on a 200lb. deer.