Ruger old army loads

[garypl]

What would your wad look like if you were keeping a hunting load?

same as always - I put a 1/16" card wad on top of the powder followed by oil wad - oil doesn't get to the powder. I don't use a revolver for hunting so I will leave it to folks that have experience in this to answer that question. For target shooting I simply find it easier to build a load using wads, but the nice thing about ML shooting as well as just about every other activty is that there are numerous ways to reach your desired result and to each their own

 

[ROA457]

I've recently bought a Ruger old army. Everywhere I read says to use a .457 ball and work from there with different powder loads to find the most accurate load. Allegedly the .457 should be shaving off a ring, but it doesn't with my gun. At best i can shave off a sliver from one side of the ball. No matter what powder charge I use I can't get better that a 3" group at 15-20 yards. Been using graf and sons FFF powder. I'm wondering if maybe they made a larger caliber version that I don't know of or maybe this is just normal for the ROA?

I’ve been shooting mine now for 40+ years, anywhere from 20-30 3f down hard on the powder. Just been playing with filler (polenta) equal volume of powder/filler, can’t say I notice any difference in accuracy. As long as your balls don’t fall out of the cylinder when you point the gun downhill it will work, .452 barrels in the ROA. Groups are what you get, which way does the wind blow or maybe you aren’t holding your mouth right. Keep your hair on and have fun.

 

[Dundee]

Buy a $20 dial caliper and measure the cast balls. Buy a set of pin gauges from McMastet-Carr sized from .452 to .457 and find out what your cylinder mouths measure. Something’s not right if a true .457 ball won’t leave a nice ring of lead shaving when seated. Just sayin.….

Just bought a caliper. We'll see what the story is

 

[Dundee]

Buy a $20 dial caliper and measure the cast balls. Buy a set of pin gauges from McMastet-Carr sized from .452 to .457 and find out what your cylinder mouths measure. Something’s not right if a true .457 ball won’t leave a nice ring of lead shaving when seated. Just sayin.….

Okay here are the measurements as follows.six of the .457 balls non tumbled because I haven't tumbled these before I started shooting. Chambers 1-6
Ball#1. .458
Ball#2. .457
Ball#3. .458
Ball#4. .458
Ball#5. .458
Ball#6. .458

Chamber#1. .452
Chamber#2. .452
Chamber#3. .452
Chamber#4. .452
Chamber#5. .452
Chamber#6. .452

Seems pretty consistent so I don't think it's the balls or cylinder. I'm curious how the balls don't shave a ring though when I ram them home. I'll give the wads a try along with different loads

 

[Silent Cherokee]

It's possible the previous owner chamfered the chamber mouths. This will swage/swedge the ball down to size instead of shaving a ring of lead

 

[Dundee]

It's possible the previous owner chamfered the chamber mouths. This will swage/swedge the ball down to size instead of shaving a ring of lead

And that will negatively affect accuracy?

 

[morehops52]

Most of the time my ROA shaves an even amount of lead w/ .457 . Occasionally I get a partial ring. I only shoot max loads and will easily better those groups. I remember reading that owners in the 70's would shoot 20g 3f with 20 grains filler for best accuracy.

I revised my earlier post as it should have read 20 g filler , not 30. I should proof read better.

 

[Silent Cherokee]

I've read that it is supposed to improve accuracy and consistency.

 

[Pablo232]

I've recently bought a Ruger old army. Everywhere I read says to use a .457 ball and work from there with different powder loads to find the most accurate load. Allegedly the .457 should be shaving off a ring, but it doesn't with my gun. At best i can shave off a sliver from one side of the ball. No matter what powder charge I use I can't get better that a 3" group at 15-20 yards. Been using graf and sons FFF powder. I'm wondering if maybe they made a larger caliber version that I don't know of or maybe this is just normal for the ROA?

The purer the lead the larger the cast product. It is possible to have some tin or antimony in lead and still have it pass the thumbnail test. Metal with tin or antimony in it will cast smaller than pure lead. I would also suggest raising the casting temperature a little.

For anybody casting for either muzzle loading or unmentionables, the very best book on casting is free online. Go to LASC.US , the website of the Los Angeles Silhouette Club. In there go to Casting Notes and in there open the book “From ingot to target”. It is the most comprehensive resource on casting out there and it is free to download. It has details on what affects cast bullet diameters.

If money is tight for buying measuring gear, any machinist or even an auto service shop is very likely to have a vernier or micrometer and could measure one of your cast balls

 

[Siringo]

0.457 balls are correct size. The Ruger cylinders are tapered slightly at the mouth. So the balls are SWAGED into the cylinder. There should not be any lead shaving. Maybe a little but mostly none. This is the way it is supposed to be and even the original Colt 1860’s were set up this way. The Italians just mucked this up with their undersize cylinders (0.448”) and no taper.

To get the most accuracy do not load from the flask. Charges very all over the place. I used pre measured tubes. Secondly weight the balls. If they’re Hornady you’ll be surprised how much they vary.

With all that being said 3 inches is not all that bad at 20 yards. The only thing I use between the ball and powder is a wonder-wad. And that is strictly to try to keep the fouling soft.

 

[Mogadishu Meanderer]

I will bet ya the nipples are worn out!! Replace them with slixshots for $36 and your works will amazingly shrink in half! Be careful removing the old one is this the case, once your strip the useless hex on them you are in for a ride. If you have to, soak them in Kroil overnight and heat them up with a torch before trying to removed them, play it safe! Ask me how I know. I have 5 ROAs and all of them have fitted extra cylinders, all seem to shoot good with 28-30 grains of 3F, ball and lube ( whatever that pleases you, even Crisco) and good I mean 2 in at 25 metres. Kaidos are good, but the Lee mould for their 220 round nose for the ROA is more useful for hunting loaded normal and upside to make a nice wadcutter, shoots equally accurate loaded either way! Try all the rest of fillers, wads, cardboard and such but in the end it will make little difference but it will be fun to find out for yourself! Enjoy it while you can! Welcome to the forum, BTW!

 

[flntlokr]

I've recently bought a Ruger old army. Everywhere I read says to use a .457 ball and work from there with different powder loads to find the most accurate load. Allegedly the .457 should be shaving off a ring, but it doesn't with my gun. At best i can shave off a sliver from one side of the ball. No matter what powder charge I use I can't get better that a 3" group at 15-20 yards. Been using graf and sons FFF powder. I'm wondering if maybe they made a larger caliber version that I don't know of or maybe this is just normal for the ROA?

My SS ruger always cut a perfect ring off the .457 balls. for target shooting, I used 15 gr.fff with enough corn meal over top to fill the chambers to within1/8'' of full, then jammed a ball down until it was flush, then a smear of crisco over every second ball. If I really wanted lots of smoke and fire (or knocking gongs at distance) I used a full load of fff. With the full load, I could often hit an 8" gong at 100 yd I also fitted the pistol with Pachmyr grips, which stop the thing from moving in your hand. I shot a few 48/50 targets with the light load.

 

[45man]

45man said: "

Ruger used .45 Colt barrels on the OA so the twist is wrong."

Can you document that? It may be true but there is nothing "wrong" with Ruger OA barrels. Those pistols shot/shoot very accurately.

Twe twist is 1 in 16", same as the .45 Colt. Too fast for a RB if velocity is high. The gun is indeed accurate with 20 gr and a filler. Iuse cornmeal.

 

[brushblind]

I've recently bought a Ruger old army. Everywhere I read says to use a .457 ball and work from there with different powder loads to find the most accurate load. Allegedly the .457 should be shaving off a ring, but it doesn't with my gun. At best i can shave off a sliver from one side of the ball. No matter what powder charge I use I can't get better that a 3" group at 15-20 yards. Been using graf and sons FFF powder. I'm wondering if maybe they made a larger caliber version that I don't know of or maybe this is just normal for the ROA?

Makes me think it was bubba-sized. I use .457 in mine no problems and my inlaws all use the same in theirs, no problems. They were all made in different years and all use .457's. We use Hornady swaged lead balls so I can't speak for homemade balls. Try measuring a few of yours and then measure all your cyl. throats.

 

[Mogadishu Meanderer]

Makes me think it was bubba-sized. I use .457 in mine no problems and my inlaws all use the same in theirs, no problems. They were all made in different years and all use .457's. We use Hornady swaged lead balls so I can't speak for homemade balls. Try measuring a few of yours and then measure all your cyl. throats.

See post #44. Not bubba-sized. Balls are .457 and up. I will bet on the nipples!

 

[Smokerr]

I am surprised no one has suggested seating a ball in a chamber, removing that chamber cone and gently tapping the ball out with a punch.

What you will find is a band of lead. Have not done it with my ROA but have with other BP revolvers (two). One was .250 with a .457 ball and the other a .147 with a .454 ball (older and newer NMA)

The Old ASP NMA shaves no lead but has the 1/4 band. The chamber mouth is tapered (as the gun had no work I believe its tapered, ie not straight wall). You can see lead on the side of the chamber as a ball goes in.

Anyway, that is your seal. You can check it for each chamber if you want. I have taken to putting paint in the bolt slot on the cylinder so I cand tell what chamber I am dealing with. When it gets warmed I can see if accuracy is consistently off from a given chamber. I pay number punch them though the paint is workign fine so far (have not done the ROA yet)

I have not had great accuracy yet but am just staring with the ROA so its not automatically accurate (and yes I am hand resting to see what the best is).

Do not be discouraged, its a learning curve. A cheap $20 Frankforth scale is also your friend.

I have read a gazzillion loading systems and claims. One guy did some testing and his results indicated wads stuck to balls and caused accuracy issues. 2 inches rested seems a reasonably good result with a rested gun.

Something to be aware of as well. Ruger loading arm is limited to depth by the stop. That may or may not compact the powder. That also has mixed views with a school saying it should be compacted though 777 is suggested not much if any.

I can only get substitute black powders so I doubt I will be able to test with real BP. So right now its 777 and Pyrodex (playing with pellets and loose in the ROA).

 

[Smokerr]

This may be of some help, its a link to Guns Magazine with a different article that has some loads for the ROA at the end. He is an advocate of something over the end of the bullet. I am not but.....

https://gunsmagazine.com/discover/handloading/reloading-the-original-way/

 

[Mogadishu Meanderer]

One guy did some testing and his results indicated wads stuck to balls and caused accuracy issues.

Like these ones? Yup, it was me. I have done a lot of testing with the ROA,s i am not a ballistician but test as scientifically as possible. These wads stuck to the ball all the way to impact and remained attached even after impact. Horrible flyers that took me over a 100 caps to figure out! But it was fun!

 

[45man]

Yup, I just upset a ball and measured groove at .452". .45 Colt all the way. I use mine for deer with 41 gr of Swiss FFFG but keep ranges very close and it has taken four so far without a loss. I much prefer my BFR .475 as deer all drop in place. It is still fun to hunt with the OA and I have to try 35 gr for target.
To clean I remove the srocks and put the whole gun in the washtub, cylinder seperate of course. After dry and sprayed with Ballistol I lube the cylinder pin with STP. Keeps a god lube and prevents a lot of crud from getting in.
Stp has let my .44 SBH run over 196,000 rounds without wear. Put a tad on the ratchet too. Put gun oil on other pins inside.
When Ruger went to stainless they had galling problems, they cured it by using different types of stainless for each part.
Chainfires are caused at the rear of the cylinders, not the front. I also found a thicker BPCR lube over the balls will not blow away from cylinder gap blast and keeps barrel fouling softer.
The Remington C&B has small cylinders so lube blows away easy and the thicker lube works better.

 

[Smokerr]

I know of one guy who tested rear chain fire theory by deliberately leaving caps off. He got none.

If you step back and think what a PC does, it seals the top forcing all the fire down into a large chamber which then jet fires down a much narrower drilled hole.

To flash fire from a fired chamber you have flame go back up that narrow drilled passage, then expand in the larger drilled part, come out the Cone.

Then have to have a cap off, the flame turning 90 deg, then turning another 90 deg into a larger drilled hole and lastly have the energy and flame go down a small drilled hole. Its implausible (becoming in reality impossible) .

A lot of testing has shown that properly sized bullets (balls or conical) form a band inside the chamber and seals the powder charge from flash around the front (where you do have a lot of flash and flame) .

Where that can fail is the chamber is oval inside and you get a lead ring but as the bullet is pushed down a gap develops on the large part of the oval.

You can run a ball down the chamber, take the cone off and then use a punch to gently move the ball back out and inspect the band. I have done so and they are not tiny narrow ones, .147 is the smallest I have seen so far. I need to check the ROA but I loaded it to go shooting and the temp dropped into the sub zero area so it needs to be shot first (I am not going to waste 6 shots though if the cold temps keep up I might!)