Ruger Old Army

[appalichian hunter]

Just purchased a ROA from Thomas on the weapons for sale area, Great weapon and am very thankful to Thomas for the sale could not be happier this is a excellent weapon and well cared for. As I have wanted one for a long time. I ordered and received the correct cylinder tool for removing the vents off e-bay. And finished a left hand holster for it. I have experience with such type revolvers frequently shooting a Rem. model 58. 44 cal. What would you recommend as a good starting load with round ball. My Marine Corps brother has one and shoots 30 grn. pyrodex pellets with a .457 swaged ball. I would like to shoot BP as this will be used for targets and as a side arm while hunting as there are a few black bears in my stomping grounds. I feel a bit better off with a side arm, hopefully I will never use it for a bear but I feel safer with 6 back up shots if ever needed. AN APPALICHIAN HUNTER

 

[Scota4570]

Use the amount of 3F real BP to allow the ball to be seated firmly on the powder and still allow the cylinder to rotate. Do not leave an air space. I tried fillers in mine and got worse accuracy.

 

[appalichian hunter]

What about wonder wads between the BP and ball, and with the REM. I use Crisco as a ball lube. I understand the air space deal as I also load BP cartridges for my sharps rifle.

 

[rodwha]

If black bears might be a thing you’ll want a fairly heavy bullet pushed by energetic powder. Not many options.

My ROA did it’s best with a hunting load using the 35 grn setting on my rifle measure that weighs about 38 grns of 3F Olde Eynsford. This is an energetic black powder designed to compete with Swiss and does as far as velocity/energy. Some feel Swiss is more accurate. Triple 7 is the other option, but accounts vary. It doesn’t produce quite as much (but close) velocity compared to the above powders but seems to have a wider spread of velocities. And some feel it’s finicky with loading pressure. I’m not so sure as I don’t see evidence of that and while I don’t use gorilla strength I do seat it firmly.

You’ll also want a projectile with a very wide meplat as expansion can’t be counted on. I created my own bullets at Accurate Molds which have a .375” meplat (83%) for hunting with. Some day I’ll work on the modified version, but the tried and true is 195 grns. I wouldn’t feel warm and fuzzy with my load and that bullet on a bear over 200 lbs. And there’s room in my chambers that I mean to fill with lead as my filler.

Any other powder that I’m aware of gives dismal velocities ad would make for a very poor powder for that.

ClassicBallistix makes a drop in cylinder that holds 5-10 grns of additional powder or you can go to Clements and have him deepen the original. Been thinking about it myself, but mostly to have a universal bullet I can share with my 1858 as it uses less powder but has additional leftover space. I doubt deepening it will change its prefered powder charge, and I not only require power but accuracy and won’t want to give up one for the other.

A fellow on another forum did some powder testing and allowed me to share it. Might find it or interest.

 

[appalichian hunter]

I figure if I have a problem (hope never) a 457. dia. ball cast from wheel weights backed by a stout load of goex 3 f is better than nothing. As I hunt with a .62 long rifle this would be the first shot and probably at close range if a situation would ever present it self. As I stated 6 is better than none I understand a angry bear is nothing to mess with as I have hunted them in Canada. One thing is for sure, hope to never find myself in such a situation. Thanks for the information. AN APPALICHIAN HUNTER

 

[wattlebuster]

Mine likes 35 gns of FFFg with a 457 ball an has served me well for a lot of yrs. I think you will find that load will take the want to out of most anything that gets hit with it

 

[Rifleman1776]

457. dia. ball cast from wheel weights backed by a stout load of goex 3 f

Forget the wheel weights, use only pure soft lead round ball. A waxed thin wad between powder (real black powder) and the ball is a great load. Put as much powder in the cylinder as it will take but allow the ball to seat flush with the end of the cylinder. Forget the book numbers, a bear isn't going to ask about velocities if you need to use that ROA on him. BTW, it is a great C&B revolver. And, btw, what do you mean by "vents"? Nipples?

 

[TFoley]

And some feel it’s finicky with loading pressure.

To the 'some' ypu can add the manufactrurers themselves. In the Hodgdon loading manual they expressly warn the shooter against compressing Triple 7.

 

[rodwha]

To the 'some' ypu can add the manufactrurers themselves. In the Hodgdon loading manual they expressly warn the shooter against compressing Triple 7.

Actually, what Hodgdon stated was that when loading cartridges a very mild amount of compression was to be used. In every other form it was to be loaded firmly. As many people claim it can’t be loaded with much pressure, yet that’s not what they stated, I emailed them asking what exactly “firmly” was. They never responded. However what someone with the types of pressure spikes that are said to happen one would not get the kind of accuracy they’d see from a powder that doesn’t do this. My loading is the same no matter the powder and I see no difference in group size or POI on the targets when I switch to Olde E black powder. It seems it would be rather difficult to load a cap n ball gun with the type of compression said for cartridges. With the variations in compression I’d assume one would certainly get wide groups.

Oh, and Hodgdon seems to have removed that along with the 15% reduction necessary to achieve the velocity of a BP load, which was dubious to state since Olde Eynsford and Swiss both produce a slightly higher velocity with the same volume of powder compared to T7. I assume that statement was made prior to Swiss being popular enough here and certainly before Olde E was being produced. But even when Mike Beliveau reduces his ROA charges 15% he still produced tremendous increases in velocity over standard Goex:

 

[rodwha]

Might want to reconsider a ball. Look at the water jug penetration figures compared to a heavier bullet:



Not to mention a wide meplat will create a larger than caliber wound channel. A ball typically seems to produce roughly a caliber sized hole in the few ballistics gel tests I’ve seen. Check out what Beertooth says about meplats and wound channels:

https://beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/61

Or this:

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/The+Effects+Of+The+Meplat+On+Terminal+Ballistics.html

With something injured and pissed off at you you’d want as much damage and penetration as you can get. A ball just pales in comparison on both accounts.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Rifleman yes nipples

 

[arcticap]

The source posted above doesn't seem to reflect the reality that Pyrodex P is more powerful than Goex 3F when
loaded into a Remington 1858 revolver with a 5.5" barrel.
Since Pyrodex P is able to be more highly compressed, more powder can fit into the chambers.
I'm not advocating using Pyrodex P however the chrony results posted above don't accurately reflect it's relative strength IMHO.

Published chronograph velocity data for a 5.5 inch Remington 1858 revolver.

Powder by Volume-------Bullet Weight ------ Average Velocity

28 grains 3F Pyrodex----138 grain 451 ball----593 ft/s
32 grains 3F Pyrodex----138 grain 451 ball----700 ft/s
32 grains 3F Pyrodex----140 grain.454 ball----850 ft/s
35 grains 3F Pyrodex----138 grain 451 ball----875 ft/s
35 grains 3F Pyrodex----140 grain 454 ball----945 ft/s
35 grains 3F Pyrodex----143 grain 457 ball----960 ft/s
37 grains 3F Pyrodex----138 grain 451 ball----950 ft/s
37 grains 3F Pyrodex----143 grain 457 ball----960 ft/s
42 grains 3F Pyrodex----143 grain 457 ball----1019 ft/s
46 grains 3F Pyrodex----143 grain 457 ball----1050 ft/s
37 grains 3F GOEX BP--140 grain 454 ball----898 ft/s
40 grains 3F GOEX BP--140 grain 454 ball----949 ft/s
42 grains 3F GOEX BP--140 grain 454 ball----964 ft/s

Source:
http://poconoshooting.com/blackpowderballistics.html

 

[Bad Karma]

In my 50 years of c&b shooting I just don’t have failures to fire after learning to load and care for these guns properly.
I use good fresh Swiss fffg and Kaido bullet. Clean the pistol, lube it with Eezox, wipe away the excess, particularly in the chambers, pick the vents and snap a cap on each. Load the piece, seal the chamber mouths with your choice of grease or bore butter, cap it with well fitted caps, and lower the hammer between chambers. That’s it. Bang, every time and as potent as a 45 colt.

 

[rodwha]

The source posted above doesn't seem to reflect the reality that Pyrodex P is more powerful than Goex 3F when
loaded into a Remington 1858 revolver with a 5.5" barrel.
Since Pyrodex P is able to be more highly compressed, more powder can fit into the chambers.
I'm not advocating using Pyrodex P however the chrony results posted above don't accurately reflect it's relative strength IMHO.

Published chronograph velocity data for a 5.5 inch Remington 1858 revolver.

Powder by Volume-------Bullet Weight ------ Average Velocity

28 grains 3F Pyrodex----138 grain 451 ball----593 ft/s
32 grains 3F Pyrodex----138 grain 451 ball----700 ft/s
32 grains 3F Pyrodex----140 grain.454 ball----850 ft/s
35 grains 3F Pyrodex----138 grain 451 ball----875 ft/s
35 grains 3F Pyrodex----140 grain 454 ball----945 ft/s
35 grains 3F Pyrodex----143 grain 457 ball----960 ft/s
37 grains 3F Pyrodex----138 grain 451 ball----950 ft/s
37 grains 3F Pyrodex----143 grain 457 ball----960 ft/s
42 grains 3F Pyrodex----143 grain 457 ball----1019 ft/s
46 grains 3F Pyrodex----143 grain 457 ball----1050 ft/s
37 grains 3F GOEX BP--140 grain 454 ball----898 ft/s
40 grains 3F GOEX BP--140 grain 454 ball----949 ft/s
42 grains 3F GOEX BP--140 grain 454 ball----964 ft/s

Source:
http://poconoshooting.com/blackpowderballistics.html

I have seen velocity figures all over the board concerning Pyrodex. Typically it has been shown to be equal to the standard powders such as Goex, but a couple of times it has been shown to rival Swiss, Olde E, and T7. The above figures were from an older opened can. It’s suspected that it was clearly going south so those figures are a different subject. Since Pyrodex velocities are all over the place it’s not a powder I’d use or recommend if one requires power such as in this case dealing with a wounded bear. Hodgdon gives velocity figures somewhere in between on their site:

 

[rodwha]

In my 50 years of c&b shooting I just don’t have failures to fire after learning to load and care for these guns properly.
I use good fresh Swiss fffg and Kaido bullet. Clean the pistol, lube it with Eezox, wipe away the excess, particularly in the chambers, pick the vents and snap a cap on each. Load the piece, seal the chamber mouths with your choice of grease or bore butter, cap it with well fitted caps, and lower the hammer between chambers. That’s it. Bang, every time and as potent as a 45 colt.

Once I used properly fitting caps (Rem #10’s) I haven’t had a failure to fire ever between my ROA and NMA. I’d venture to guess this, combined, has been over 1000 shots as I used to go to the range for hours every month and firing something like 7-10 cylinders from each revolver for well over a year. And the prior failures were with magnum caps that required a second strike to ignite.

 

[M. De Land]

In my 50 years of c&b shooting I just don’t have failures to fire after learning to load and care for these guns properly.
I use good fresh Swiss fffg and Kaido bullet. Clean the pistol, lube it with Eezox, wipe away the excess, particularly in the chambers, pick the vents and snap a cap on each. Load the piece, seal the chamber mouths with your choice of grease or bore butter, cap it with well fitted caps, and lower the hammer between chambers. That’s it. Bang, every time and as potent as a 45 colt.

I assume you mean the .45 Colt using black powder loads.

 

[Rat]

In my 50 years of c&b shooting I just don’t have failures to fire after learning to load and care for these guns properly.
I use good fresh Swiss fffg and Kaido bullet. Clean the pistol, lube it with Eezox, wipe away the excess, particularly in the chambers, pick the vents and snap a cap on each. Load the piece, seal the chamber mouths with your choice of grease or bore butter, cap it with well fitted caps, and lower the hammer between chambers. That’s it. Bang, every time and as potent as a 45 colt.

I'm just agreeing to disagree here, but I've always thought snapping caps before loading is not a great idea, if you are not going to fire the pistol right away. Also, "wiping excess lube" from the chambers....I like to clean the chambers well with dry patches, then with alcohol patches, then dry patches again, let that air dry for a while, then load the gun. Of course I wouldn't do all that if I was going to fire the gun soon. And of course I would pick the vents/nipples well before loading.

 

[Rat]

Sounds like the 1858 might hold more powder than a ROA? Is that right? What will a Dragoon hold? That might be the better option. In the ROA, I believe a bullet/slug/conical will indeed be better for the purpose intended....even at lower velocities, or lower energy figures if that be the case.

 

[Rat]

To the 'some' ypu can add the manufactrurers themselves. In the Hodgdon loading manual they expressly warn the shooter against compressing Triple 7.

They should experssly warn the shooter against using Triple 7.

 

[rodwha]

Sounds like the 1858 might hold more powder than a ROA? Is that right? What will a Dragoon hold? That might be the better option. In the ROA, I believe a bullet/slug/conical will indeed be better for the purpose intended....even at lower velocities, or lower energy figures if that be the case.

The NMA holds about 5 grns less than a ROA. The Dragoon holds roughly 5-10 grns more than a ROA.

My ROA can easily hold 40 grns thrown from my rifle measure with enough room for a wad. It does best with 35 grns. That setting throwing 3F Olde Eynsford weighs about 38 grns. My NMA can easily handle 35 grns with a bit more excess room than the 40 grn measure above. I’d guess there’s a 3-4 grns difference. The Dragoon supposedly holds 50 grns with a ball.

The NMA and ROA both can come with a 5.5” barrel making them a little more friendly to quickly needing pulled, and weighing less it would make them a bit more friendly for all day carry and wielding.

With the proper powder and a bullet the NMA should be able to produce standard .45 ACP performance. The ROA should be able to achieve +P performance. With a wide meplat and some weight these wouldn’t be too shabby on a black bear of reasonable size, and possible even the big NE ones. More is always better though, right?

Anyone know if the conversion cylinders for the ROA can handle the standard .45 Colt from the likes of Buffalo Bore? Should be more meat on them vs the Remington and Colt versions.