Ruger Old Army

[oldschoolhunter55]

Why don't you do that with a Colt SAA first?

Mike

nick_1, i did "move" the frame of a SAA copy (Pietta Frontier) by shooting 5 45acp +p rounds. They were factory loads ( not mine) from Hornady and were Critical Duty (not Critical Defense for the homeowner). The same +p loads are what I shoot in my 1860's.

The Remington was bent decades ago from loading/shooting hard balls and nothing was noticed until I had trouble rotating the cylinder. The main point there is the parallel sides of the frame ( which any engineer would tell you is the weakest structure to contain a force at a corner). So, this shows the "failure" is the perimeter structure of the frame itself which, same as today, is only enhanced by thickness and width of the top strap ie Freedom Arms, BFR'S, Ruger Super Blackhawk . . .
You can "read in" whatever you want but that's where I'm coming from.


Haaa!!! The "modification" IS making the open-top to design so you CAN test apples to apples !!! The design calls for an end fit arbor which Uberti doesn't do. Isn't it more fair to test correct build to correct build?!! The "shooting loose" wedge you speak of above about Rugers making it a non issue is exactly WHY it's a "non issue" with correct setup!!
My (and my customers) wedges don't "shoot loose".


No. It's all about the frame. A Colt size frame cannot withstand the +p forces in a .45acp+p caliber.
The Kirst cylinder can and a CORRECTLY built open top platform CAN. It's actually about how all the forces are applied that elude some of the "so called" thinkers here!

Mike

nick_1, i did "move" the frame of a SAA copy (Pietta Frontier) by shooting 5 45acp +p rounds. They were factory loads ( not mine) from Hornady and were Critical Duty (not Critical Defense for the homeowner). The same +p loads are what I shoot in my 1860's.

The Remington was bent decades ago from loading/shooting hard balls and nothing was noticed until I had trouble rotating the cylinder. The main point there is the parallel sides of the frame ( which any engineer would tell you is the weakest structure to contain a force at a corner). So, this shows the "failure" is the perimeter structure of the frame itself which, same as today, is only enhanced by thickness and width of the top strap ie Freedom Arms, BFR'S, Ruger Super Blackhawk . . .
You can "read in" whatever you want but that's where I'm coming from.


Haaa!!! The "modification" IS making the open-top to design so you CAN test apples to apples !!! The design calls for an end fit arbor which Uberti doesn't do. Isn't it more fair to test correct build to correct build?!! The "shooting loose" wedge you speak of above about Rugers making it a non issue is exactly WHY it's a "non issue" with correct setup!!
My (and my customers) wedges don't "shoot loose".


No. It's all about the frame. A Colt size frame cannot withstand the +p forces in a .45acp+p caliber.
The Kirst cylinder can and a CORRECTLY built open top platform CAN. It's actually about how all the forces are applied that elude some of the "so called" thinkers here!

Mike

Well thats why i came on here lol. Ive learned the hard way that my thinking usually gets me in deep trouble. Really appreciate the knowledge and experience on here!!!! My grandpa always told me sometimes i over think things. So im sitting on the fence and listening. I want to ask a question, How strong is the frame on RUGER OLD ARMY. Please dont think im going overload it lol. Just shooting roundballs for right now. And i dont want a conversion cylinder

 

[oldschoolhunter55]

@oldschoolhunter55 too harsh? Well, we have a modern replica 1860 conversion using 23k psi loads. You can fire those in an 1873 or Remington 1975 and stretch that frame or destroy the cylinder. The Blackhawk is like an SAA replica but massively stronger so why would anyone compare them? The actual, original contention was that the 1960 open top was stronger than the Remington NMA top strap. Apples and apples.


Don’t worry, we’ll get back to those, winter has barely begun.

Thank you sir. Im sort of figuring a little out. This type of technicol stuff i honestly dont know nothing about. Lol but im trying to learn. But i enjoy watching and learning from yaw. Now s9mething i do know about is deer hunting but this year aint been the best. Havent been yet due to back injury but still got till january 1st. Going try to see this week if i can carry my climbing stand and get in a tree over at dads house before i go. That way if something happens i can get help there fast they live in town and help will be fast. D9nt want to get in the woods by myself have to call for help that would be a mess. Enjoying all this information that is shown on here. Again thank you sir

 

[M. De Land]

Ok, here is the bottom line and my last post on this subject (that should make some happy)

A Ruger Blackhawk with a 250 grain Hornady bullet and 26+ grains of H110 will generate 30,000 lbs of pressure. I know, I have done it and you can look it up on the reloading sites.

When 45D or anyone else loads up an open top with an equivalent load at that pressure and shoots a full cylinder through it and it holds together I will personally call them up and apologize and humble myself to him.

Until then....as they say...... your just whistling dixie

I was inquiring of a Uberti dealer about the type of steel used by them in the actions of a High Wall I purchased from them and was told they made use of 8620 equivalent alloy which I have investigate as having very similar tensile and yield strength as 4140 chrome moly when carburized ( case hardened) . If this information is accurate and the same alloy is used in their reproduction revolvers then the alloy would be similar in strength to what Ruger is using which is 4140 investment cast. I would like to nail down the facts conserning the alloy used in their revolver steel . Does anyone know the facts concerning this .

 

[AlexB]

Tow had a roa conversion cylinder listed last night if that interests anyone.

 

[M. De Land]

Tow had a roa conversion cylinder listed last night if that interests anyone.

Yeah, I'm glad their available for folks that like having a convertible but personally I hate loosing the excuse to buy another gun that does shoot cartridges only.

 

[45D]

Yeah, I'm glad their available for folks that like having a convertible but personally I hate loosing the excuse to buy another gun that does shoot cartridges only.

Not sure what that means . . . You loose what?
All my ROA's have a conversion cylinder and are very accurate (they were the first big bore Rugers I'd ever shot). I was surprised at the overall accuracy of all of them.
For those that need/want another cap cylinder, Kirst sells new ones.

Mike

 

[beardedhorse]

Are the Ruger Old
Army cylinders for 45 LC six shot? One conversion cylinder for a Reminfton New Model Army only holds 5 cartridges.

 

[45D]

Are the Ruger Old
Army cylinders for 45 LC six shot? One conversion cylinder for a Reminfton New Model Army only holds 5 cartridges.

Yes, ROA cyls are 6 shot.

Mike

 

[oldschoolhunter55]

No sir, is that what it takes? I've bent a Remington frame loading/ shooting too hard of balls . . . I've moved the frame of a modern Pietta copy of a SAA so that it wouldn't allow loading a 45C cartridge after firing just 5 45acp +p rounds . . .

I'm really not into destruction of my revolvers or my body parts just to satisfy some keyboard pirates . That's "backward" testing !!! I'm not in a hurry !!

I actually read what others have tested , load information from the likes of Brian Pearce.
The field is wide open. . . . knock yourself out and let us know.

Mike

Well as for me think i will load light till i get more experience lol. And when i have questions im asking you sir. Because if i had an accident and blowed one up i would soil my pants and never stop flinching again or losing my eyes. Lol. But i do enjoy all this information!!! Thank you

 

[Dickydalton]

Ok, here is the bottom line and my last post on this subject (that should make some happy)

A Ruger Blackhawk in 45LC with a 250 grain Hornady bullet and 26+ grains of H110 will generate 30,000 lbs of pressure. I know, I have done it and you can look it up on the reloading sites.

When 45D or anyone else loads up an open top with an equivalent load at that pressure and shoots a full cylinder through it and it holds together I will personally call them up and apologize and humble myself to him.

Until then....as they say...... your just whistling dixie

No baby here easy chair, and I would never shoot that load in this conversion either!

 

[45D]

Well as for me think i will load light till i get more experience lol. And when i have questions im asking you sir. Because if i had an accident and blowed one up i would soil my pants and never stop flinching again or losing my eyes. Lol. But i do enjoy all this information!!! Thank you

I don't recommend doing what I'm doing, I'm just providing information about a platform. My particular revolvers are set up a little different from the "run of the mill" diy conversion.
Mainly, I just want folks to understand that the open top platform isn't something on the "brink" of coming apart when using tier 1 loads.

Mike

 

[Smokerr]

French Colonial has convinced me to joking the light side of the force with a supplemental conversion cylinder for my ROA!.

How strong is the frame on RUGER OLD ARMY. Please dont think im going overload it lol. Just shooting roundballs for right now. And i dont want a conversion cylinder

I had not intended to either, but I got to thinking, I have one for the 47 Walker, why not? I tend to cartridges in the colder weather as loading cylinders for BP is not a lot of fun in the cold let alone the caps getting put on.

I may pick up a spare BP cylinder and sell the ROA Centennial. I like the steel frame on the 94 ROA a bit better and I am using the Centennial as my spare cylinder right now.

I am shooting the 41 mag now as well though the ROA sight picture is definitely better. Rear sight on the 41 needs to be opened up more, I may buy a spare blade and do it.

 

[oldschoolhunter55]

I don't recommend doing what I'm doing, I'm just providing information about a platform. My particular revolvers are set up a little different from the "run of the mill" diy conversion.
Mainly, I just want folks to understand that the open top platform isn't something on the "brink" of coming apart when using tier 1 loads.

Mike

Oh i can promise i wont be doing that lol.But its nice to read about all this on here.and a very big THANK YOU for sharing this information!!!!It seems that u have a lot of patience when it comes to explaining things to people even when they argue. Lol. Keep sharing bud thank you

 

[oldschoolhunter55]

No baby here easy chair, and I would never shoot that load in this conversion either!View attachment 366123

I like that. Nice

 

[French Colonial]

It seems little dicky has poor reading comprehension.

No time for fools....another one bites the dust and goes in the old ignore bin.

 

[45D]

It seems little dicky has poor reading comprehension.

No time for fools....another one bites the dust and goes in the old ignore bin.

Still can't do your "ultimate" test with a Colt SAA or a Ruger New Vaquero. (My open-tops will beat um both!)

 

[Dickydalton]

It seems little dicky has poor reading comprehension.

No time for fools....another one bites the dust and goes in the old ignore bin.

Can't take it huh, easy chair? Glad to be there. I hope that blocks me from seeing anymore of your drivel.

 

[Bad Karma]

I get that the Remingtons were in actuality no stronger than the open top colts despite looking stronger but the writing was on the wall. Modern revolvers went in that direction for more reasons than just cost. the closed top allows for more versatility and greater strength. It just needed to be beefier than the early renditions.

I suspect it also had a lot to do with the top strap being a dandy location for a functional rear sight. Many shooters have trouble with the Colt rear sight. Personally I think it works very well when you have time to acquire it.

 

[Bad Karma]

My 1873 colt replica is a Ruger Blackhawk that Shoots 30,000 lb loads regularly

Take that and I raise you a couple pounds

You guys who don't load for the 45LC with heavy loads should do some research before you spout off about things you don't know $h!t about.

Bought my first Blackhawk in the early 70’s. Later Ross Seyfried began to suggest heavy loads for the Ruger and I began loading 325 grain bullets for elk and bear about that time. You’re not telling me anything new. And while the Ruger may bear passing resemblance it’s about as much a replica of the SAA as Starship is a replica of the space shuttle Discovery. A completely different beast.