sabots from 1:48 twist

[jaynorton]

Just shot a flinter for the 1st time. I purchased a Lyman Deerstalker with 1:48 for hunting here in PA. I know most people say to use round balls or maxi-hunters from this gun. I tried 300 grain .45 cal XTP mags (.50 cal sabot) just because I had them for my Knight Disc rifle. After 3 shots I was able to actually keep my eyes open (partially, anayways ) I ended up getting a 3 shot group at about 4 inches at 50 yards. I was a little surprised. I am an average shooter at best. I've had a couple locals here tell me they shoot sabots as well.

Are we all washed up????

What is the mechanics behind the idea of using a round ball vs. maxi or mini vs. sabot??

I guess in my simple way of thinking, there is just as much area, if not more on a sabot to engage the rifling in the barrel.

 

[pennsyltucky]

the problem is there isnt a fast enuf twist for some types of projectiles in some guns, not so much the depth of the rifling.
i have a .50 t/c hawken with 1-48 twist thats shoots anything fairly well but my father's gun (same thing) wont shoot anything thats not a round ball. go figure guess u got a good one

 

[tg]

"
What is the mechanics behind the idea of using a round ball vs. maxi or mini vs. sabot??'

Not sure I understand the question, but the main issue with rb vs sabots /conicals is a percieved advantage of the latter over the rb and a very factual issue of the former being fodder for a traditional approach and the latter being modern designed projectiles thus not within the traditional scope of hunting equipment.

 

[roundball]

What is the mechanics behind the idea of using a round ball vs. maxi or mini vs. sabot??

Like a lot of us as we get deeper into more traditional muzzleloading, we keep learning as we go...and one way I think really makes the point to someone relatively new to the notion of round balls is this analogy:

A .30-30 is built around a 170grn .30cal bullet with a MV of about 2200fps...and it's reputation as a deer cartridge of all time is well established in our history, with typical woods shots to 100yds.

Same with your .50cal Flintlock...a .50cal round ball weighs 180grns, and TC's load manual shows their hunting load to have 2135fps MV...plus, the soft lead .50cal RB is already about twice the frontal area as the .30-30 bullet, and expands even more.

At these same woods distances, a .50cal ball is basically the same as the .30-30 170grn bullet...also well reknown for it's deer harvesting ability.

The terrific side benefit of using the round ball in your flinter is that's what flinters were designed around, and you'll doing it like the settlers did it...plus, you can do a lot of practicing year round with lead round balls compared to the cost of sabot/bullets.

I use TC's load data in my TC Hawkens...and an outstanding .50cal deer load I've used for several years is:

90grns Goex 3F (or 110grns 2F)
Oxyoke overpowder wad
TC .018" lubed pillow ticking patch
Hornady .490 ball (or Speer)

Go load up this hunting load and shoot a gallon jug of water at 50yds...you'll be shocked...it easily puts down deer to 100yds..."it's a .30-30"
:front:

 

[jdixon]

If you just have to shoot a sabot round, rather than a PBR, my opinion is that the 300 gr. projectile you were using is too long for that 1:48 twist. In short, the longer the projectile, the faster the rate of rifling twist necessary to properly stabilize its flight. I would look for something that is conical in shape but, only fractionally longer than its diameter - e.g. I have a 1:48 in a Hawken that handles very well a 240 gr. .452 Horndy XTP/Mag pistol bullet in a sabot (this out of a .54 cal.). That bullet, in a hollow point, mics. out at 0.676 in length, or 33% longer than its diameter. The 1:48's can handle that, start pushing past 50% and you are likely to see accuracy suffer.

 

[jaynorton]

If you just have to shoot a sabot round, rather than a PBR, my opinion is that the 300 gr. projectile you were using is too long for that 1:48 twist. In short, the longer the projectile, the faster the rate of rifling twist necessary to properly stabilize its flight. I would look for something that is conical in shape but, only fractionally longer than its diameter - e.g. I have a 1:48 in a Hawken that handles very well a 240 gr. .452 Horndy XTP/Mag pistol bullet in a sabot (this out of a .54 cal.). That bullet, in a hollow point, mics. out at 0.676 in length, or 33% longer than its diameter. The 1:48's can handle that, start pushing past 50% and you are likely to see accuracy suffer.

Thanks, that's what I was looking for.

 

[Deadeye]

On the other hand, I make a 500 gr. .50 cal conical and shoot it in a .50 GM 1/28 twist, will shoot 4" at 200 yds.
Several weeks ago I got a TC .50 cal 1/48 twist and while shooting PRBs I decided to try some of the 500 grs. conicals. I was as surprized ,as probably you are, that they shot just as well from the 1/48 as they do from the 1/28. Maybe just that particular barrel, who knows. ::

 

[roundball]

On the other hand, I make a 500 gr. .50 cal conical and shoot it in a .50 GM 1/28 twist, will shoot 4" at 200 yds.
Several weeks ago I got a TC .50 cal 1/48 twist and while shooting PRBs I decided to try some of the 500 grs. conicals. I was as surprized ,as probably you are, that they shot just as well from the 1/48 as they do from the 1/28. Maybe just that particular barrel, who knows. ::

I wouldn't think it was just that rifle...when I transitioned from a .50cal Knight inline to a TC Hawken 1:48" caplock in the early 90's, I continued to use up the same sabot/Hornady .452/300grn combo I had used in the inline for a couple seasons, they did very well, took a few deer with them...then moved on into patched balls, then flintlocks, etc