Sad state of retail "outfitters"

[jmforge]

I have been out in Dallas visting family and I dropped by the local Bass Pro Shop and the new mega Cabelas in Ft. Worth hoping to maybe get a look at some ML'ers. I should have been prepared for a letdown. Although the Cabela's "gun library" actually had some very nice old English, American and European guns and even one of the new Birmingham "budget" Boss boxlock guns (only $24,000 instead of the normal $150,000 for the London sideock..lol) the only ML'ers at Bass were a handfull of the typical plastic stock sub $500 modern inlines. Cabelas had more of the same on the rack and in the glass case they had several BP revolvers, one Hawken style rifle that looked like someone had taken a 2x4, bandsawed the general shape of a rifle stock, inletted it for the barrel and action and knocked the sharp corners off before slapping some Minwax on it. Other than the Pietta Remingtons, which actually looked pretty nice, especially for the price (hate to admit it, but the stainless short barrel Remington was VERY nice), the only other tadtional gun they had was the Pedersoli howdah pistol. All I can say is that for $600, I expected a LOT better. Perhaps I expect too much, but I can tell you that the fit and finish on a Winchester Model 70 Classic Sporter at a discounted price of maybe $850 is light years ahead of what I saw on the howdah. It looked like something that most gunamkers wouldn't let get put on a truck going to Wal Mart!!! I kept looking for the "Made in Russia" stamp and the $150 price tag. Being a knifemaker, I know that I should not have been surprised at the dearth of really cool guns at these stores. For all their bluster about being "outfitters", they know who their core customer is and this can be seen by the shear volume of camo and bass boats in stock. But I was REALLY surprised that even Cabelas wasn't stocking any selection at all of traditional ML'ers tha they have on their website. I know that the people on here are a small percentage of the market, just the like the folks that go on the custom knife forums. Now I see the absolute need for forums like this and the gunmakers and other folks who frequent them. I don't know if any of those thousands of customers that I saw this weekend might take an interest in anything muzzloading beyond a $300 inline, but they will never have the opportunity to find out if those mega-outfitters are the only places they shop. The ope good thing I can say about Bass is tha the do have VERY nice salt water stores in South Florida, but I figure that is the only way that they can survive down there.
Thus endeth the rant. Keep up the good work! :grin:

 

[necchi]

Perhap's it's a regional thing. We have 3 cabelas here in Minn. and the 2 I visit carry maybe 8-10 different long gun styles of trad ml's. Your right though the larger market is the inlines

 

[renovato]

Last summer I was in Austin a couple times doing gun shows. I dropped in the Cabelas there. It was the first time I had been in a Cabelas (WOW!), but I was also dismayed at the total lack of any traditional muzzleloaders. Not even a T/C to be found. For all the hunting in that part of the state, I figured there might be some interest in them, but they had nothing but the plastic zip guns. There's no interest in them locally either. You can find Pyrodex and sabots, but not a patch, ball or cap to be found anywhere that I know of.

 

[LittleMoe430]

Yup, I travelled over 500 miles from Western New York to the Chicago Cabelas to pick up a couple Swedish Pimples for ice fishing (actually, I went to see my daughter graduate from Navy Basic Training) and was disappointed with the selection of stuff there. No pimples and all the products were the same as what I'd find in Dick's or Gander Mt. in Buffalo. The ML section was a joke. I left with a three-dollar hat and a bag of jerky...

 

[Poor Private]

Little Moe,
You should have slipped over the border of Ohio and into Michigan on your way back, to check out the Cabela's in Dundee. There you might have had a different experience. Not saying you would but, you ever know.(wooow I hit the 1k post mark).

 

[Vaino]

We bemoan the dearth of traditional MLers stocked at the various "sporting goods" stores but that's our capitalistic supply and demand system and our rat race "culture" at work. Inlines are popular because they are more similar to CF rifles and offer "quick and easy" loading, etc. and the people that buy them are a product of our "veneered" life style. Cabelas, Gander Mountain and Sportman's Warehouse are first and foremost businesses and if certain items don't sell, they don't stock those items. In fact, the "stores" that do sell traditional MLers often don't sell BP because of the restrictions and storage requirements and instead sell the substitutes that can be used in both traditional and inline MLers. That's the economics of staying in business. I wish the situation were different as far as the type of "MLers" available in "stores" but that's just how it is because of our "culture". A valid "tip off" of the traditional MLer market is that the Chinese aren't in this market because of the low sales volume. I wish we weren't in the "plastic age" but some think it's progress....Fred

 

[silverfox]

Hi Joe. Boy not good to hear all that. Next month I will be traveling to the Ft Worth area and the only outlet(escape from house) would be the mentioned bigbox stores. Guess I'll go anyway just to kill time. Down my way if you ask to see a muzzleloader or blackpowder gun they look at you like your craxy or reply what is that. So like so many others I generally go on the web sites to get anything related to blackpowder now. It was not always that way but my mind refuses to go back that far.
Fox :hatsoff:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

It's sad Fred but you are right. The phony plastic age is here and some folks seem to like it. As difficult as it is to believe, many actually want a plastic stock on their muzzle loader.

The people who buy into the in-line philosophy--I use the word reluctantly--are often sold a story by the marketing people or a salesperson who doesn't know any better. And the guns are cheaper, a strong selling point.

Ignorance is bliss they say, and in the plastic world this is probably a good thing. But I miss the good old days and contrary to a popular song, these are not the good old days!

 

[FishDFly]

In all honesty, stores stock their shelves with what sells. If a product does not sell, a store/chain is not going to stock it.

Would you personally put a half of million dollars into inventory in your store if the product was going to sit on the shelf?

With the bar code on each item, a store/chain can track what sells, what does not sell and in what part of the country the item does sell.

The stores are in business to make money, no other reason.

You can not blame the stores, it's society which mandates what is stocked unfortunatly.

I find it critical to support the businesses which are board sponsors, when they are gone, where are you going to get what you need?

RDE

 

[tx74sharps]

I frequent the Ft. Worth Cabelas Fairly often(@1time every 5 or 6 weeks) and I have noticed a drop in inventory on items across the board .I believe this to be due to slow economic times and possibly INVENTORY TAX They are just trying to hold on like all of us

 

[zimmerstutzen]

in -lines are pretty much the "easy button" for folks getting into muzzleloading. The problems is that the care and feeding of such is pretty expensive compared to a traditional gun and loose powder. I remember the muzzleloading "gold rush" days of the late 1970's stores could sell anything regardless of how flimsy.

On the other hand, I know of at least a few new traditional shooters who were intitially brought into the fold by in-lines.

In the late 1970's, folks were in part, into the Revolution and Constitution bicentenniels. There were some really great made for TV westerns, Like Michener's Centenniel and How the West was Won.(starring James Arness)

There hasn't been much of anything historical to draw folks back in. TV is littered with blathering reality shows, because westerns are politically incorrect. Perhaps in 2113 when we celebrate the 150th anniversary of Gettysburg and the civil war. CAS has drawn several away.

 

[fort fireman]

I stopped at the cabellas in Wheeling WV on the way back to Nc from my parents house in Pa. That cabela's had alot of the more traditional BP rifles. That being saidthat store is only 15 minutes away from the Pa line. Pa is one of the few states that still has a traditional BP hunt right after christmas. I guess there is a demand for the traditional stuff at tht location more than others. That being said they also had twice as many "zip guns " as traditionals. Modern market just dosen't really want the traditional stuff. Most guys I think just look at muzzleloader season as another chance to get in the woods and not so much back to the basics like it was originally intended.

 

[tnlonghunter]

I live about 20 minutes from the Dundee, MI Cabela's. While it's not exactly Tip Curtis' shop, there are usually a decent supply of production traditional MLrs. Usually 3 or 4 GPR's, a couple of the .36 cal Blue Ridge rifles, maybe a reproduction smooth-bore Brown Bess or Springfield. There is also real BP (at about $24 pound), round balls, and some "traditional" shooting accessories - (powder horns, possibles bags). Everything is production grade, but it's not bad compared to other locations.

 

[Sham66]

Howdy!

Cabela's in Fort Worth, Texas used to be good for traditional muzzleloaders. One of everything on display; rifles, shotguns, muskets to play with. Now just zip. Even the accesories have dwindled. Same for the one in Buda TX, Gonzales LA, and Hamburg PA. But then again in muzzleloading, Dixon's is down the road from Hamburg.

I really miss my Sportsman's Warehouse!

James

 

[oldarmy]

The REAL problem as I see it is..
These stores want to sell to "HUNTERS".
The state has a "muzzle loading" season
that defines any weapon that loads from the "muzzle" as a muzzle loader.
It also Only gives the hunter one deer tag for the season.
The modern "meat" hunter, being a product of our "modern" environment. Wants the most trouble free rifle that looks and acts like his centerfire rifle. Down to the scope and bolt..I know I argue with one all the time,, I am building a 54 flintlock, just to show him that these rifles are as good as any.. inline.. :cursing: ever made :thumbsup:
The solution as I see it is to DEFINE THE MUZZLE loading season as a primitive weapon season ONLY.. Flint, or side hammer percussion, ROUND BALL ONLY..no scope.. and Give the hunter an extra deer tag as an incentive to buy and use a "primitive weapon"
You would see allot more interest in traditional firearms.. which would mean more of these "big box" chains would have the weapons we love.
Until this happens I don't see it changing..

 

[Lostrifle]

I had to drive over to the Hamburg PA Cabla's, to pick up the flint rifle a nice gentleman offered to give me. While I was there, of course, I looked through the muzzleloaders and ml supplies. Not too many guns. I did manage to buy a can of Goex 3f and a box of .490 roundball. Had to get the powder there, as I can't get it in NJ. Now I'm also finding it difficult/near impossible to get the rb's here.
Well, Dixon's is at least a half hour closer to me than Cabela's. I'll be going to the gunmaker's fair this year, if I don't decide to go out there earlier, for powder and ball.

 

[William O.]

Last summer I was in Austin a couple times doing gun shows. I dropped in the Cabelas there. It was the first time I had been in a Cabelas (WOW!), but I was also dismayed at the total lack of any traditional muzzleloaders. Not even a T/C to be found. For all the hunting in that part of the state, I figured there might be some interest in them, but they had nothing but the plastic zip guns. There's no interest in them locally either. You can find Pyrodex and sabots, but not a patch, ball or cap to be found anywhere that I know of.

I was just at that Cabelas on Friday and bought some Remington black powder caps which they have behind the counter, plus I've gotten patches and ball there before as well. There are several specialty shops that stock far more accessories though, like the Powder Horn in San Antonio.

 

[FishDFly]

Cabelas has the Pedersoli "Maple" Rocky Mountain Hawken on sale for $699, was $1099. That kind of says something about traditional M/L sales and the economy. It's sad.

RDE

 

[FishDFly]

In each state things are different on how long you can hunt and with what.

In Texas we get the whole month of October for bow season, if you are interested in bow hunting.

Depending on where you hunt and the permitting by the state, you can gun hunt in October.

Gun season runs from the first part of November into January. In some parts of Texas there is a muzzle loading season, generally after gun season closes.

In all honesty after 90 days of deer season, there is not much interest in a muzzle loading season. In the general gun season, you can for the most part hunt with what you wish as long as it is not rimfire.

If you have not killed a deer in 60 days, odds are you won't or do not care too.

In all honesty, except in far South Texas, the number of deer hunters in the woods falls off dramatically after Thanksgiving and then picks up after Christmas.

Changing the laws here will not have an impact on hunting with traditional muzzle loaders unfortunately.

RDE

 

[LittleMoe430]

I would have stopped there (Dundee), but we had the liberal/Obamanaut-In-Laws with us and they weren't too happy to have visited one of "those" stores in the first place. By that time I was really ready to get them home and out of my proximity.