Sad state of retail "outfitters"

[sepiatone]

It's just not popular out here. I've met more ML shooters when I lived in Los Angeles than out here in Dallas...that's sayin something.

 

[jmforge]

Texas is kinda funny in that there isn't a whole lot of public hunting land and if you already have to find private land to hunt on, there is a whole mess of exotic species that you can blast with impunity with your Model 700 year round often times for a LOT less money than you would pay to hunt whitetail on the same patch of dirt.
I was obviously disappointed by the dearth of ML'ers at these places. They didn't even have very many inlines. One little round floor rack at Bass and not much more at Cabelas. Now Cabelas did have Hornady round balls in the popular calibers up to .58.
What bothered me just as much was the general poor quality of the couple of traditional guns that Cabelas did have. I haven't seen or handled many ML'ers. Are most of the "factory" guns out there as shabby looking as those two that I saw? I have heard both good and bad things about the Pedersoli guns and I sincerely hope that the howdah pistol that I saw was not a typical example. The big problem is that even if many of the Perdersolis are nice, I have no way of knowing what I am getting until I have already paid for it. I know that I shouldn't expect London best quality from a $600 gun, but I think that I should at least expect a level of fit and finish equal to what folks like Winchester, Ruger and Remington produce especially if I am going to drop $1K+ on something like a Gibbs or Whitworth. I have never built a giun, but I will say that if I couldn't finish a kit and have it trun out better than the rifle I saw in the case at Cabelas, I would not only never build another gun, but also reconsider making knives and maybe take up macrame...lol.

 

[WV MZL HUNTER]

I agree, I live 15 minutes from the Cabelas in Wheeling. The problem they do not have anyone that really knows anything about the sidelock and flintlocks. Most are young kids looking to sell the in/ines. I have help them a few times selling a sidelock, I just happened to be looking around when a man was asking about them. I help the young salesman out. He had no idea on what to tell the customer. Cal; balls, and powder types ect.

 

[PaulN/KS]

The Kansas City Cabela's had some Pedersoli Hawkens a couple of weeks ago as well as some Lymans. A couple of shotguns too.
I picked up a nice Pietta Remington with the 5 1/2" barrel while I was there... :grin:

 

[Blackfoot]

I would have stopped there (Dundee), but we had the liberal/Obamanaut-In-Laws with us and they weren't too happy to have visited one of "those" stores in the first place. By that time I was really ready to get them home and out of my proximity.

You know... It's really easy to lose someone at cabelas, so if you did some duck and hide you could lose the libbys and go about your business without the xtra baggage....

 

[BrownBear]

In May I visited Cabelas in three different states and Sportsmans Warehouses in four. Lots of variability between states. I'm still kicking myself, but the bargain cave in the one outside Salt Lake had four Hawken kits for $218 each, and I wasn't smart enough to pick them all up, much less one.

I talked to clerks in all 7 stores. Basically it boils down to stocking what sells. All were willing to order anything I wanted.

I've also visited a couple of dozen smaller stores in the last couple of months. Basically, if they weren't sidelock specialty stores with healthy online sites, fuggedaboudit. All the non-specialists said two things- they don't have staff that know about sidelocks and they don't stock what doesn't sell. And yeah, they were happy to order if I wanted.

Several of these smaller guys said interesting things. They said they used to stock traditional stuff, but the internet killed them. Customers can buy guns and most other gear online, sometimes as cheaply as the stores can get it themselves. They just got sick and tired of hearing clients complain that they could get the same thing online cheaper. Lots of folks would come look at their stock, then go home and order it online. Said one: "Fine. Order it yourself online, and I'll just throw a few inlines on the shelf and be done with traditional muzzleloaders- both the guns and the guys that use them."

Seems to me that online sales are as much to blame as inline sales.

 

[jmforge]

it seems to me that the online sales phenomenon may end up favoring the custom builder and the kit builder because at least your can see pictures of what you gun will look like before you buy it, which is more than you can say for ordering factory stuff online where your gun may only bear a passing resemblance to the on in the picture on the website. Obviously, any company is going to choose the cream of the crop for their stock photo's. My brothers and I discovered that when buying Winchester Model 70 Classic Super Grades. All of those guns had nice wood, but you would occasionally find one where it looked like the guys on the assembly line had gone over during lunch break and snitched a "mid grade" blank from the custom shop. :grin: Point being that you would never find that extra nice gun here in Florida unless you went to someplace like Kevins in Tallahassee or a REALLY big gun show where they would have 4 or 5 of them to chose from and we don't seem to have that option in a retail environment in a lot of places in the US when it comes to ML'ers..

 

[daoliver924]

Cabela's retail stores often stock way more than they display. I visit the Hartford, CT store when I pass through and if I don't see it I ask. It is usually behind the counter. I went to the Scarborough, ME store (very small) looking for a Blue Ridge. None were on display, Asked and they had several in the back.

They display what sells but often have others

 

[WV MZL HUNTER]

The Wheeling Cabelas Store has a distribution center that carries just about everything in the book. Plus if you order or request a shooters catalog it will have all the black powder supplies and guns in it. :thumbsup:

 

[JPShelton]

I have been out in Dallas visting family and I dropped by the local Bass Pro Shop and the new mega Cabelas in Ft. Worth hoping to maybe get a look at some ML'ers. I should have been prepared for a letdown.

The only Bass Pro Shop I've been in is the Broken Arrow, OK location. I'm generally underwhelmed on every visit, as they never seem to have what I am looking for in stock, and often don't seem to know what it is when I ask if they've got it.

As I type this, I honestly don't know why I keep going back to that place.

I pretty much have to order all of the shooting stuff I use online. That isn't just for trad. muzzleloading, but also for my airgun habit and my suppository guns, too.

Bass Pro does have a lot of clothes. There is a reason why they're the first thing you have to wade through to get anyhwere else in the store, too. Essentially, Bass Pro is really a clothing store that happens to stock some boat stuff, fishin' stuff, huntin' stuff, and NASCAR trinkets.

I'm not really certain that I understand who their intended customer base is.

I just know that catering my vision of the rugged, traditional outdoors lifestyle isn't what they are all about.

-JP

 

[paulvallandigham]

The overhead on those big stores is phenomenal. They put all the clothing out front, because the mark-up on clothing is typical 300-400 percent, and gives them their greatest profits. The mark-up on fishing equipment is similar. The mark-up for Guns is about 25%, and sometimes the discount places are forced to sell guns for even less of a mark-up. If they want to stay in business, they have to sell lots of clothing, and lots of fishing tackle, and gear.

The Cheapest way for them to sell guns, and make a profit, is to let you order the gun, paying for it in advance, and giving you a discount over regular retail price. With you paying in advance, the store invest NONE of its own cash to buy the gun, and still makes a small profit on the transaction.

The gun does not sit on display for months, eating up cash and making no money on the investment. As soon as your gun arrives, a phone call to you is made, and it leaves the store. The store has its "commission" for handling the paper work, sales, tax, Nics, check, etc. from the start, and that profit can be rolled over quickly by investing in more items that sell quickly at a much higher mark-up.

When you see a gunstore with lots of firearms on display, the owner has invested a lot of money to stock that store, and needs to be selling lots of guns every day to justify that huge investment in inventory.

 

[Rat Trapper]

It's the same story here in wisconsin. Next to no traditional rifles in either Gander Mountain or Cablelas. When I was working in a sport shop, it was hard as hell to move any traditional rifles. I'd keep putting them in peoples hands only to have them tell me it has an exposed hammer thing. Some thought the exposed hammer was a saftey issue, or must be too hard to clean. The new in-lines must be better and all that bull.

 

[jmforge]

I have only been to one Gander mountain store in Ocala, FL. What shocked me was the general lack of knowledge demonstrated by the staff in the gun department and I wasn't even looking at ML'ers. I guess I was spoiled at a young age by old timey gun megastores like Tamiami Gun Shop in Miami and Kevins Sporting Goods in Tallahassee. When I think of an "outfitter" I think of old line stores like Abercrombie and Fitch of old or maybe something like Kittery Trading Post in Maine circa 1976. The gun room or should I say gun FLOOR at Kittery blew my 15 year old mind when I was there back then. Folks like Bass, Gander Mountain and Cabelas seem to have a different definition.

 

[FishDFly]

"What shocked me was the general lack of knowledge demonstrated by the staff in the gun department"

In all honesty, I am not shocked at all, there is not a lot of knowledge that is being passed down or on anymore.

It use to be people grew up in the country and learned about shooting, hunting and fishing from their families or relatives. The single parent household in not fostering the outdoors for the most part.

Now housing subdivisions and apartment complexes go on as far as you can see. These folks are not learning about the outdoors. With most land now being private, where are people going to learn?

Paul V. made a good assessment of today's retail marketing for sporting goods. Sad but true.

The other side, stores hire younger people as they do not have to pay them as much, younger equates into "was the general lack of knowledge demonstrated by the staff in the gun department".

RDE

 

[paulvallandigham]

If I were in the retail business, and had a used gun rack, I would want each gun to have a target attached to it, showing its best load, and group fired at 50 or 100 yards. The information on the load data would be written or typed on the target, so that buyers would understand that the rifle shoots, and shoots well enough to produce fine groups. If the person who sells me the gun or trades it in for a new gun does not provide such a target, I would pay him much less. However, I would have some of my retired friends take it and other used guns out to a range, and do their magic shooting the guns. The price of guns with targets would be more- sometimes more than a new gun of similar make and design, simply because the gun is being sold already tested, and with the additional information on how to load it to get the best accuracy.

I have been to only one store that did this. They had a hard time keeping used guns on their racks, and they sold more used guns than new. The owner was in fact considering having his friends take the new guns out and shoot them, to produce good loads, so that he might be able to sell more new* guns!

(* Not pre-owned. We all know that manufacturers fire the guns for their own testing requirements before they are shipped from the factory.)

His idea was to take one of a model of new rifles and have targets shot with it, using commercial ammo, while leaving some of the NIB guns on the rack for those buyers who simply Have to Have a NIB gun, rather than one that has even been test fired. This shop was out of state, and I have never been back there. Its been so long, I don't even remember the town where it was located. I was very young, and didn't know anything about gun stores. My brother and I were allowed to go into the store with Dad on our promise to LOOK, but don't touch. I remember asking Dad at some point about the targets attached to the trigger guards of the used guns. Then I listened to the Storekeeper talk to dad about it.

 

[single shot]

i go to many small gun shops. its not hard to tell the difference between a salesmen and one who sells but also has a passion for what he does. i have come across more good deals in private gun shops than i ever have at the big super stores..i like that personal touch. Sometime im not in a position to buy but ill stop by to visit some..Support you local guys and get to know them, most of them will work with ya.

 

[jmforge]

True. Gun shop owners and their employees, even in the bigger stores are gun guys. The folks who own big stores are just more successful guns guys. Those owners and employees tend to be obsessive about guns, even if their area of interest is fairly narrow or not the same as yours. Whereas at a place like Cabelas, Bass, Gander, you will have at least one gun guy selling the expensive stuff in the "fine gun room" or "gun library", one or two more behind the counter who are kinda gun guys and a bunch more working the floor who are slack jawed hourly employees who can also sell you a wakeboard....LOL.

 

[PaulN/KS]

The whole online sales thing may have some merit as far as factory gun sales go.Some places are less expensive than others that is for sure... :hmm:

I myself have bought a few guns "online",a couple from the nice folks at The Gun Works as well as new and used ones from individuals.

 

[FishDFly]

With the decline in places that carry traditional ML items, online is about the only option for many items.

How many posts are made hear each year asking where is the cheapest place to buy lead, primers, a particular rifle, etc?

Often shipping and handling is less expensive than gasoline.

If not for online, it would be difficult to buy some things.

RDE

 

[dyemaker]

I could not find any traditional rifles at the Gander Mt. here. The trusty sporting goods stores that were here for years and years were forced out business by the Gander Mt. store too. There were inlines at the new store but that's all.