Safety Pins: how?

[Poor Private]

Not to get the safety police after me but this is another one of those issues that never gets settled. The Colt Peacemakers had guys lowering the firing pin on a live round and carrying like that, any pull on the hammer would bounce the hammer down and fire the gun. It would be like carrying a cap and ball with the hammer down on a live cap. In any event the carry5 idea came about with the cartridge guns but folks started back peddling and applying it to cap and ball. I've tried and tried and tried brushing a holstered gun against objects seeing if I can trip a hammer far enough back to rotate the cylinder enough to cause the hammer to come down on a cap. I'm sort of tired of the issue so let's just say load five and lower the hammer on an empty chamber.

Noper you won't see me carring 5. I will fill to the max and carry in full flap. any and all pistols Lets carry the logic further. If you carry a Paterson(5 shooter) then you only load 4?, If you carry a Howdah(double barrel) you load none cause it has 2 hammers, you carry a single shot you load none either. Now if your going Hunting with your long gun, do you neglect to put on a cap, or laod it? Same difference. :hmm: I guess thats what the safety notches, and pegs are for. And if you let them get bent or broke-then shame on you for carrying a gun in need of repair.[color]

 

[M. De Land]

I know one thing and that is a single shot carried capped on half cock is far more dangerous than a six shooter with all chambers loaded and capped with the hammer nose on a safe pin. MD

 

[yakimaman]

I don't believe holsters were designed to carry the pistol "butt forward" - I think left hand holsters worn on the right side were done that way to draw the pistol with your left hand, leaving the right hand free for the saber.

 

[Many Klatch]

I made a pair of holsters for my Remington NMA 44's. If I carry the guns at my waist, not slung low like a gunfighter, I am not tall enough (5'9") to easily draw the guns from the holsters unless I wear them cross draw. I think butt forward may have been a lot more common than you think.

Many Klatch

 

[pargent]

FYI this whole 5 only thing is totaly modern , hcpc way was to load and carry 6 in both c&b and cartridge. For c&b refere to Mosby's Grey Ghost about loading and carrying 6 as well as the numerous other offical documents including loading and cleaning instructions from Colt .

 

[Marc Adamchek]

yakimaman - I wasn't referring to a cross-draw, but rather the "cavalry draw", or at least I think that's what it's called.

Duelist1954 shows how to draw the pistol in a youtube video. The pistols are actually in their holsters butt-forward. If you are right handed, then the holster is on your right hand side (not cross-draw).

Your hand twists so that its backside is facing the body, the grabs the butt and twists the hand (and pistol)to a firing position as the arm is raised.

It looks funky. I seem to remember safety as being a reason for a soldier to keep the holstered pistol pointing backwards, away from the body.

Beleive me this was a new one on me. Check out the video.

 

[Marc Adamchek]

1601phill, Texas Rangers were glad to carry 6 bullets in their new Walkers after only having 5 in their Patersons.

I believe the extra bullet was one of Sam Walker's suggested modifications to Sam Colt when designing a more formidable sidearm for the TX Rangers. They always loaded the full optimum because they were used to the odds being ten to one against them in all their "scrapes" with the Comanches etc!

 

[crockett]

Something interesting has come from this that I never thought about before. revolvers were carried in all sorts of styles but "butts forward" was very common and I've always figured on a long barrel revolver it is easier to draw them cross draw style- only odd part is they say Wild Bill turned his hands side ways and drew, using right hand for right side pistol and left hand for left side pistol. With the butt forward it would be very difficult to snag and pull back the hammer (unless you walk backward)- wonder if that had anything to do with the butt forward carry.
I've been re-reading Marcy (30 years on the Border) and he actually speaks about preventing firearm mishaps and how some guys lowered the hammer on a live cap and if the hammer got yanked the hammer could snap right back down on the cap. Nothing however about loading 5.
With the hammer down on a pin the hand goes back down so the process must start all over, in order for the hammer on a pin to cause an accident it must be pulled back far enough to engage the hand against the racket and rotate the cylinder around to the point that a chamber is brought into line with the barrel- such that a hammer drop hits a cap- still quite a bit of pulling back on a hammer.
BUT...as I said, I'm advocating 5 :bow:
On the cartridge guns- I might be wrong but I thought the practice of loading just five came about rather early (say 1880's). That's just my impression. I think the cartridge guns are a different thing because shorter barrels were common and the age of the cowboy (bouncing around on a horse) came about- possibly creating more of a hazard.

 

[LaBonte]

I don't believe holsters were designed to carry the pistol "butt forward" - I think left hand holsters worn on the right side were done that way to draw the pistol with your left hand, leaving the right hand free for the saber.

With respect but you would be wrong - the cavalry or twist draw can be well documented, Bill Hickok was one who used this draw - the so-called double cross draw method is more of a Hollywood creation.
As for the saber (seldom used post Civil War) or pistol - they were both used with the right hand, never in the left which was reserved for handling the reins. This latter info can be found in period training manuals.

 

[pargent]

Well my post got edited so maybe you lot are not ment to know anything hcpc with revolvers

 

[Zonie]

Forum rule #1 says

The focus of this site is "Traditional Muzzleloading"; The history of the people, the muzzleloading weapons and battles, up to and including the American Civil War. (From the inception of firearms through 1865)

A casual mention of guns made after 1865 and the loading of these 6 shot revolvers to put things into perspective is okay, but delving deeper into the cartridge guns and their needs goes beyond the limits of the Forum.

 

[pargent]

Kind of makes the whole topic of loading only 5 mute then does it not ? I do see your point about me going into the cartridge era .