Safety Questions For My Muzzleloaders

[Carl323]

I have these muzzleloaders:
1. 54 cal. Investarm SPA, made in Italy. Did a good bit of shooting with it using Pyrodex.

2. 54 cal. Conn. Valley Arms "Stalker Carbine", made in Spain, imprinted 700Kp/cm (squared) on gun. Have never fired it, though like all these have had them since the late nineties. Liked the look of it.

3. My beauty, CS Richmond VA 1862 58 cal. (Replica), never fired, bought because it's the spitting image of the gun my gg grandfather is holding in an old ambrotype we have of him at 18 when he enlisted. Made by Armi Sport, Italy.

I want to get back into shooting but in browsing the net have come upon some disturbing articles regarding imported muzzleloaders, especially from Spain, alleging the metal used and method of manufacture isn't up to the pressures exerted on firing. The 700 Kp on one of mine seems low when compared to the Kp these articles say are typically the case when muzzleloaders are loaded and fired per the manufacturers' directions.

First post, dumbo questions I know, searched to see if this had been brought up before. Now I'm worried. Any insights from you are greatly appreciated on these particular guns and the three companies. I read that CVA recalled a couple of their models, but mine listed above did not have a serial number matching those. Thank you!

 

[azmntman]

Thread on metal on the forum but mostly arguing. I wouldn't worry, been shooting my Italian and Spanish replicas for 39 years with no issues. Lack of common sense kills though so just think, and if u cannot think don't shoot BP or vote please. :wink:

 

[Irish lad]

Amen!
Stay below the maximum recommendations in the manuals, load carefully and keep your wits about you.
Make smoke,
Irish

 

[galamb]

There was one issue with some "inline" models from CVA that resulted in a recall. That would not have affected any of your rifles.

The argument is "on paper" many of the barrels that we (collectively) shoot are dangerous because they are not made of barrel quality steel.

Now the majority of the barrels out there have been made essentially the same way from the same material for probably the last 40 years or so and it is pretty rare that you hear of a failure.

And of the few that do get publicized I honestly can't remember where the failure was attributed to the barrel itself and not some failure on the part of the person using it.

(I do stand to be corrected on that - if someone has "proof", please do post it up)

Of course, when one does occur it travels through the muzzle loading forums like wild fire.

The users of this forum, collectively, have put millions of rounds through these barrels (maybe hundreds of millions).

If they were "ticking time bombs" don't you think blown up barrels would be a common occurrence??

So shoot your rifles within the guidelines established by the mfg's who built them and don't lose any sleep at night waiting for one to go "boom" in the wrong direction.

 

[biliff]

Sounds like you're reading Chuck Hawks/Randy Wakeman. They're discussions of proof tend to revolve around the unmentionable rifles using unmentionable propellants in large quantities.

If you stick to traditional projectiles and sane charges there shouldn't be any issues.

 

[vervillev]

Take care to properly load your smokepoles, follow the manufacturers recommendations for proper loading, as mentioned by previous remarks in this thread, and ONLY use blackpowder or blackpowder substitutes and make sure your choice of projectile is seated well on the charge, and have a ball.
There are many things that you can do to ensure that you can safely shoot your rifles/pistols so that you will be able to enjoy the sport of blackpowder shooting.
And there is good guidance on this forum to do just that.

 

[Billnpatti]

There ain't no problem with those rifles. Properly loaded and properly maintained, they will last far longer than you will. Quit worrying and start enjoying.

 

[mooman76]

I know they had some issues with guns made in Spain when reproduction first came out but that was a long, long time ago. Some were due to barrel run out. I wouldn't be concerned today.

 

[necchi]

Welcome,
Thanks for checking in.
You've found the right site for all your questions about your guns.

In short, your golden.
All three of your rifles are familiar to us and many members have and use them on a regular basis.
Like your Investarms, just continue using them all following the common protocol for the use of ML guns and they'll serve you for years, :wink:

 

[TLanoy]

Shoot! :thumbsup:

 

[AZbpBurner]

Don't let them fool you - Those rifles are all junk, and may explode without warning, even when unloaded :grin:

First of all, before firing any of them, pull the nipples and clean out any packing grease, swab out the barrel, too.

You'll find the Goex Load charts helpful for finding a starting point for powder loads for your rifles:
http://goexpowder.com/load-chart.html

Since you've used Pyrodex before, you can use the same powder measure and same powder charge for both Black Powder and Pyrodex. Remember that, although Black Powder and Pyrodex have different weight for identical volumes, powder charges are measured in terms of volume. A 50 grain (by weight) charge of black powder is the same as an equivalent Volume of Pyrodex.

Once you shoot it, take some pictures of .58 cal Armi Sport 1862 rifle, and be sure to include a pic of your 2xgreat grandfather.

There are a wealth of folks here who can answer any questions, concerns and issues that may arise for shooting any of your rifles, loading techniques and sizes for patches and balls.

Also, Investarms makes rifles for Lyman and other importers. I have several Lyman/Cabelas/Investarms rifles, all made withing the last 35 years, and they are solidly made and amazingly accurate.

Don't try to rush to get them all working, but concentrate on working up an accurate load for them one at a time.

I'vefound that all my .54 cal rifles were very easy to work up accurate loads for, perform well over a wide range of powder weights, and are all amazingly accurate and easy to shoot.

The only dumb question is the one that's not asked, and all questions about safety are important to ask.

 

[robinsroost]

Like most of the others, I have rifles, and a shotgun, made in Italy and Spain. They are good shooters and accurate. Hell, the original Hawken brothers rifles had barrels made of iron, and they were the choice of the mountain men. Shoot them and enjoy them............Robin

 

[rmackey]

Dittos, I have two Investarms, a GPR and Cabelas Hawken. They are good quality shooters. Just like modern rifles you can spend a lot of money but you still have to shoot them to be really good with them. Just ask any dead deer, aim small, miss small, still means your dead.

 

[Dphar]

I have these muzzleloaders:
1. 54 cal. Investarm SPA, made in Italy. Did a good bit of shooting with it using Pyrodex.

2. 54 cal. Conn. Valley Arms "Stalker Carbine", made in Spain, imprinted 700Kp/cm (squared) on gun. Have never fired it, though like all these have had them since the late nineties. Liked the look of it.

3. My beauty, CS Richmond VA 1862 58 cal. (Replica), never fired, bought because it's the spitting image of the gun my gg grandfather is holding in an old ambrotype we have of him at 18 when he enlisted. Made by Armi Sport, Italy.

I want to get back into shooting but in browsing the net have come upon some disturbing articles regarding imported muzzleloaders, especially from Spain, alleging the metal used and method of manufacture isn't up to the pressures exerted on firing. The 700 Kp on one of mine seems low when compared to the Kp these articles say are typically the case when muzzleloaders are loaded and fired per the manufacturers' directions.

First post, dumbo questions I know, searched to see if this had been brought up before. Now I'm worried. Any insights from you are greatly appreciated on these particular guns and the three companies. I read that CVA recalled a couple of their models, but mine listed above did not have a serial number matching those. Thank you!

The Italian barrels are probably a modern gun barrel steel. Spain I cannot say but since they are proved they are possibly suitable steel. Sadly you are more likely to find a poor quality steel (for gun barrels) on an American made custom than on an Italian import.
The quality of assembly I cannot speak too.
Dan

 

[Carl323]

Thanks to all of you for your answers. I'm going to go for it!

 

[Carl323]

Sorry for double post. What do I click on to add a reply to the whole thread, the reply button on the opening post? Again, thanks for all of your help and answers. Much appreciated and I'll shoot with confidence.

 

[Zonie]

The way the forum is set up, you can't reply to the topic or to no one.

If you are concerned about replying to one of the other people who posted you can preface your comment with something like, "To All: This answer may rankle some...." , or, "To no one in particular: The light is brightest when...".

Most members have learned that the "In Response to..." doesn't mean much so they have learned to read the post and then figure out if the comment is directed toward them.

 

[lcharles]

I have shot CVA's in competition since 1989 - early locks were ordinary but nobody made a better muzzeloader barrel then or since!
Sad that they went to inlines - sad that there are inlines !!

 

[lethemgo]

I wouldn't shoot any of them...they could bust open. I'm right on the other side of the river and will go out of my way to come over and help you out by removing them from your house. Shoot dude....lets go shoot them!