sanding curly maple ?

[labrat]

Does fancy curly maple need to be sanded perfectly smooth? I keep sanding and it seems that I can still feel the grain surface. any help would be appreciated.........Labrat

 

[EC121]

Sand it to maybe a 320 grit then wet it to raise the whiskers and sand again. Use a sanding block or you will get ripples because of the curl. It doesn't have to be a mirror finish. If you want a super finish, there are grain fillers available, but a sealer will also fill the grain. You can also burnish the grain closed. I use a piece of antler.

 

[ghostdncr]

I scrape mine and then lightly finish with 320 to de-whisker. That's all. I like how that turns out on most stocks.

 

[Norman Brooks]

Does fancy curly maple need to be sanded perfectly smooth? I keep sanding and it seems that I can still feel the grain surface. any help would be appreciated.........Labrat

Feeling the grain is normal. I use 320 grit wet/dry sand paper. What you want to look for is any file or scraping marks that is easily missed. Whiskering off does help. I also have deer antler tips that work on spots that I may have missed. Review dave_person Kibler build on the stain he uses for highlighting, I believe he used a yellow color to highlight with.

 

[tenngun]

The curl is a ripple in the wood grain. It will never be as smooth as walnut or even pine

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Does fancy curly maple need to be sanded perfectly smooth? I keep sanding and it seems that I can still feel the grain surface. any help would be appreciated.........Labrat

I would like to amend this post. I stand corrected by Dave P. Sawdust is not good for Maple! I had thought otherwise, until his reply below me.(5:53) Forgive my miss direction!
Larry

Sanding and a good scraper will help smooth your curly maple, but it will alway feel grainy, until you have the oil coat finished. Save your fine sawdust and mix it in when applying a first coat of your tung oil, linseed oil or whatever you are going to use. Lots of rubbing will work the sawdust in and fill those pores.
Larry

 

[ohio ramrod]

Curly Maple has "soft and Hard" spots due to the curl. It will always feel wavy until you get heavy coats of finish rubbed out.

 

[oldwood]

Curly maple can be made smooth as non curly maple by sanding and always using a backer behind your sandpaper. Backer can be a sanding block , a small or large flat rubber pencil eraser, a piece of cut off r/r for tight areas , and r/r channel. For a rippled antiqued look , as a few original rifles display , scrapers and burnishers , were primary tool's for smoothing wood , before applying the finish. I'm one of those folks that uses steel wool for the final overall smoothing on m/l stocks. My reason for using steel wool is the alcohol stain process I prefer . Once the first coat of alcohol stain is applied , a heat gun raises the grain to the extreme , making it perfect for the steel wool application. Obviously , the more coats of alco stain and dried with heat gun, the less whiskers to deal with. ............oldwood

 

[labrat]

Thank you all for your help very informative. I just noticed that along the upper right side of the wood from the Lock to the rifle tip there is a straight line of deep pores in the dark grain only. I keep sanding put they are just too deep. It's not machine or man made so I figure it's just a freak growth in the wood. I'm not really bothered by it so I just sanded it down as far as I can without disfiguring the forestock. More than likely it will disappear with the finishing stain............Labrat

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
In my opinion a slight texture in figured maple looks better than a glass smooth stock. Sanding with a block will remove the ripples but many new builders sand way too much and the guns look it. Edges get rounded over, details lost, and if there are incised lines, they start to get dished out becoming wide "V" grooves rather than sharp crisp lines. I buy cheap carpet scraping blades from the hardware store and scrape maple stocks to reduce any sanding that I do. I urge you not to use sawdust filler on maple. There is no need and it will obscure some of the figure by reducing the penetration of the finish. into the softer wood. Steel wool is fine but if you stain with an acid-based stain like ferric nitrate, you may end up with dark flecks in the wood from steel wool fibers caught in the wood. Maroon and gray Scotch Bright pads are better because they don't shed fiber.

dave

 

[LME]

Does fancy curly maple need to be sanded perfectly smooth? I keep sanding and it seems that I can still feel the grain surface. any help would be appreciated.........Labrat

I have found that to get a furniture finish on practically every type of wood I need to go through the progressions of sand paper up #400 and over if one prefers? Take care of any staining or dyeing at this time. Lightly go over the wood with #0000 steel wool Then apply sealer. When sealer has dryed I steel wool it again. Now I am ready to apply a finish.
This is the method I use on custom furnitue and it seems to please my customers?

 

[LME]

Hi,
In my opinion a slight texture in figured maple looks better than a glass smooth stock. Sanding with a block will remove the ripples but many new builders sand way too much and the guns look it. Edges get rounded over, details lost, and if there are incised lines, they start to get dished out becoming wide "V" grooves rather than sharp crisp lines. I buy cheap carpet scraping blades from the hardware store and scrape maple stocks to reduce any sanding that I do. I urge you not to use sawdust filler on maple. There is no need and it will obscure some of the figure by reducing the penetration of the finish. into the softer wood. Steel wool is fine but if you stain with an acid-based stain like ferric nitrate, you may end up with dark flecks in the wood from steel wool fibers caught in the wood. Maroon and gray Scotch Bright pads are better because they don't shed fiber.

dave

I have to agree with you on one statement ! A stock that has a glass like plastic looking finish just doesn't appeal to me but on the other hand I speak for my self. To each his own?

 

[oldwood]

Lebrat.............Some , Maple wood , can have dark colored pitch occlusions in it . I think they add character to the gun stock. If the darker color is due to a softer bark occlusion , it's best to seal it with brown colored epoxie. Bark is softer than the actual wood itself , that's why the epoxie rather than a filler. I don't want to get off on the wrong foot here either. All the work I do is stained with alcohol stains , and not acids or strong bases. That covers nitric , chromic acid , and aquafortis. Those chemicals have one deceiving quality , in that they are one step application , essentially , and depend on being able to stop the black coloration at it's desired level. This doesn't happen now any more than it did in the early years of gun building. The necessary heat applied to the freshly chemicalized wood , causes a black color in the soft curl and a chestnut color in the hard part of curl. No matter what I put on the chemicalized wood , I could never permanently neutralize the chemical used , resulting eventually , in a black , yellow to green highlighted color in the curly maple. I gave the chemical treatment up due to it's lack of color control issue.
I went to alcohol stains after looking at a few hundred or so original guns. Invariably , the chemical stained finishes can be picked out as dark. I like the color control feature of alcohol stains. I buy yellow , red, and of course black as my base color. Standard tan leather stain can be easily changed in shade from brown to more redish by adding red stain or yellow to taste. Application..................Ok to use steel wool for the final sanding polish step as unlike the chemicals , a few steel wool fibers do not react as after rust. Apply the black stain first and dry immediately with heat gun. When dry , steel wool the whiskers off. Next , apply the color stain , and again dry with a heat gun. Fewer whiskers each time the alcohol stains are polished with the steel wool. Color control can be adjusted by applying straight 91% alcohol to take color out , or color can be added to the stain mix any time. Another feature of alcohol stain is, the final shades of color can be tested on wood in the barrel channel to get the shad desired. Some folks will counter this method by saying "alcohol stains fade". They can fade if not correctly applied. Black first , then the color last. In that order, the best effect can be achieved. I just don't like black gunstocks with slight to no other color in them. Sorry if i've stepped on a few toes , no disrespect intended. To each his own....................oldwood

 

[mooman76]

Hi,
In my opinion a slight texture in figured maple looks better than a glass smooth stock. Sanding with a block will remove the ripples but many new builders sand way too much and the guns look it. Edges get rounded over, details lost, and if there are incised lines, they start to get dished out becoming wide "V" grooves rather than sharp crisp lines. I buy cheap carpet scraping blades from the hardware store and scrape maple stocks to reduce any sanding that I do. I urge you not to use sawdust filler on maple. There is no need and it will obscure some of the figure by reducing the penetration of the finish. into the softer wood. Steel wool is fine but if you stain with an acid-based stain like ferric nitrate, you may end up with dark flecks in the wood from steel wool fibers caught in the wood. Maroon and gray Scotch Bright pads are better because they don't shed fiber.

dave

I agree. It gives it character.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Oldwood,
Can you post some photos of your guns? That would be nice to see especially when discussing finishes.

dave

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Here are photos of maple stocks stained with ferric nitrate dissolved in water, which is the same as aqua fortis but with a weaker acid base. You can add other color too and control the color by using different concentrations. Using lye dissolved in water to neutralize any acid residue will also add more red to the color.

I don't have trouble with color control and black figure.

dave

 

[labrat]

Thank You all for your comments & suggestions. They are all appreciated. I do not want the glass finish and I do not mind some character bumps & defects. I like the old used & abused look but not tooo dominant, Ha. Being my a first build and no experience I'm going to stick with the basics for now. Iron nitrate & Laurel Mountain Maple stain which I have already purchased because I do love the look. I will heed all of your warnings & suggestions as I'd love to finish this project with a beautiful rifle...........Labrat

 

[labrat]

Thank you Dave for the pictures & suggestion. I love the red that is why I choose the Maple LM stain. Hopefully there color chart is spot on..........Labrat

 

[Rudyard]

I have allways considered Maples ( & Sycomore its English equivalent ) to be wonderfully free of the whiskers so vexing in Walnuts . I like the Fiebbing's leather dye ' British Tan' with darkening of ' Marine black' when called for ,Maple like other woods comes in different degrees of density depending on it grown location but both will answer for stocks if the denser is better. I mostly use linseed oil that takes a good while to dry away with use and long handling even after being soaked in rain for days all comes right the saturated gaps find thier way back to' as made' form . I don't think Ime in the same League as Dave. but no ones complained & I ve made near 200 over the years in a wide variety of woods Beech ,Mulbery, Kouari , Miru besides the usual Walnuts, Sycomore/ Maples, And some stuff no idea what it was but its a blundrebuss now Masle add Cherry , & South African Pine ,& Jarrah & some stuff called Merranti & Ive some ' Brazil wood' red stuff will do for Scots pistols yet to use it. What that's added to the conversation I am unsure but same theme at least.
Rudyard

 

[oldwood]

Dave...........Would love to send some pictures. I have no cell service where I live , so no fancy phone for pictures. Currently I have one ,58 cal. Jaeger , a 16 ga. Ped da Vasche ,French Indian trade musket in my stash , and my two hunting rifles , a.50 cal Lancaster , Valentine Fondersmith , and a .40 cal. Cheat River Appalachian Mtn. rifle. . I still have guns to build in the hopper ,but due to illness , I can only work about 6 hours a day. Used to work for a large company from Holland doing electrical engineering work. Too much overseas travel ruining my gun building time , so I quit in 06. I'm coasting now-a-days , mostly scratch building m/l guns for me. Now and then I sell one and give one away , here and there.. Still not sure why I love doing builds , guess it matters not the why. ..............I enjoy your posts and wish you well......................oldwood