Scouring Stick vs. Wiping Stick vs. Ramrod

[Flint1]

Hello everyone
I believe the term ramrod is a 20th century term--is this correct? Also, around Thanksgiving last year I was watching Plymouth Adventure which starred Spencer Tracy. Of course this was set during the matchlock era. The ramrod was being referred to as a scouring stick. A few nights later I was watching a program about Jamestown on the History Channel. A reenactor was firing a matchlock and again used the term scouring stick. I've read that the terminolgy used in the 18th and 19th centuries was wiping stick. Was the term scouring stick an English term or the terminolgy used in the matchlock era? Did the terminology change in the 18th century, or was wiping stick a colonial and later American term? Thanks.

 

[benvenuto]

I know 'ramrod" dates at least to the 1840's. I have read a newspaper report of a soldier arrested for drunk and disorderly looking like he had "breakfasted on ramrods and ball cartridge" while he sat in the dock.

Scouring stick was indeed english and dates back to the matchlock era... I really don't know when ramrod came in but I would guess the end of the 1700's?

 

[Wes/Tex]

I believe "scouring stick" & "wiping stick" were used prir to 1800 +/- a decade or two while "ramrod" did come into use after that time. So far, I've found "wiping stick" used most often in older sources and modern sources quoting them.

 

[robinghewitt]

Didn't the scowering stick have semi-circular, sprung iron blades on to end to scrape the fouling out, as on the Mary Rose pattern? Not sure it would do your bore much good :shocking:

 

[PedroB]

Robin,
yes indeed.
One replica has a scouring stick that has two "scrapers" and a screw between them to remove a stuck ball (I can't imagine the damage those scrapers did int here...) and the other end was the "rammer".
This system was used up until the 1600's.

 

[Flint1]

So when these matchlock shooters referred to a scouring stick, was that a stick with scrapers attached? Was this the norm on matchlocks of the 1600"s?

 

[PedroB]

During the English Civil War they referred to the "scouring stick" as the ramrod.
Very few musketeers ever cleaned their muskets at all. In fact, the problem got so bad that many muskets were simply painted black, lock, stock and barrel to combat rust.
It worked to a point but when the soldiers would rather gamble or drink than clean their guns, it's a lost cause.

I think that the "trayned bands" were much better at gun maintenance though.

 

[robinghewitt]

So when these matchlock shooters referred to a scouring stick, was that a stick with scrapers attached? Was this the norm on matchlocks of the 1600"s?

I've never seen one on a 17th century gun, but they did call then scowering sticks which does kind of imply a scouring action ::

 

[arilar]

Look at www.musketandrifle.nu and the photo on muzzle and ramrod-end of Swedish Matchlockmusket 1620. Can that be what you are looking for? I have one of Magnus 1620 replicas and the ramrod works in the way its intended! :imo:
ARILAR :: :thumbsup:

 

[Light Dragoon]

The manuals written in English in the late 16th Century and early 17th Century (such as de Gheyn) always refer to "Draw Out Your Skowring Stick" and the like, specifically referring to what we call a "Ramrod". That they could screw in a "skowrer" to then "skowr out" the bore was the added bonus. But it's still, with or without the attachment, the "Skowring Stick".

The manuals of the mid-17th, 18th and early 19th Centuries refer to "Rammers" as in "Draw Your, Rammers!" "Return Your, Rammers!" etc.

As I recall, "Wiping Stick", at least by the 1840's, referred not to the rammer but to the spare one carried inside the bore by most shooters, and certainly by most Plainsmen and Mountain Men. I recall in Wah To Yah and the Taos Trail by Lewis Garrard, his friend John Smith (yes, another one of them) saying "Draw your wiping sticks, we might be in for a fight!".

Cheers!

Gordon

 

[Cruzatte]

To add more confusion to the mix, in Regulations for the United States' Infantry by Col. Alexander Smyth [1812] he uses the term "rammer" to refer to the loading rod of the US musket.

Cruzatte

 

[Flint1]

So do you think the hunters and settlers of the F&I and revolutionary periods may have called them rammers and not wiping sticks?

 

[Light Dragoon]

So do you think the hunters and settlers of the F&I and revolutionary periods may have called them rammers and not wiping sticks?

I think that they are different animals entirely, at least in Frontier parlance for personal weapons, and from my own reading. A rammer is carried under the barrel in a channel cut out of the stock for it's use, whereas a wiping stick is carried inside the barrel most of the time, with a greased patch on the end to keep it from sliding out easily. What the shooters usually refer to as a "working rod". It's there for doing the normal loading and wiping, saving the rammer under the barrel (like a spare tire) for after you've lost or broken the wiping stick. Hopefully that never happens, but good to have if it does!

At least that's how I read it, though it probably wasn't the case in all places at all times on the Frontier.

Cheers,

Gordon

 

[Flint1]

So if I am reading this correctly, the hunters of the F&I and revolutionary periods probably would have carried a wiping stick in the bores of their weapons, which probably would have been loaded when they were out and about. Just would have had to remember to remove them before firing. Is this correct?

 

[Light Dragoon]

RW;

That is how I understand it. I've only read a few accounts where it's mentioned, but when it is, they say "Remove your wiping stick, we're in for a fight!" or words to that effect.

I had a talk about such things one time with Frank House, and that was his opinion as well, based upon his research.

One proviso I want to make here is that the only times I KNOW of them being used in this way is with rifles. Doesn't meant that it was exclusive to them by any means, but as far as the specific references that I personally have read, it was for rifles, and post-F&I War. I just want to make that part clear.

Cheers,

Gordon

 

[benvenuto]

of course having met a reenactor who was accidently shot with a ramrod, the potential of a well aimed wiping stick it a firefight is not to be underestimated! :winking:

 

[Flint1]

Thanks for the info. I recall reading one of Mark Baker's columns in Muzzleloader about one of the Wetzels--it may have been Lewis. In it he relates how Wetzel and his companion arose early one morning after a night in the wilderness, loaded their canoe, and headed downriver. After a mile they had to return to the campsite because Wetzel had left his wiping stick leaning against a tree. I thought it was the ramrod he referred to, but it may have been the wiping stick normally carried in the bore. I think if I had a ramrod I would not have returned.

 

[Light Dragoon]

I suspect that in a wilderness situation where your life absolutely depends upon your ability to keep your rifle loaded, having a spare rammer is a VERY good idea, and well worth back tracking a mere mile to ensure. At least in my opinion it would be.

Remember the story of Daniel Boone breaking his rammer in an Indian fight, and thus not being able to save his son Israel from being killed? (I wonder why he didn't have a spare, actually!) He had to cut a cane quickly to have ANYTHING to ram his bullet home, and was at least able to kill his son's slayer. At least that's how I remember it as happening. Anyway, a wiping stick would have been pretty handy in that situation, no question.

Cheers,

Gordon

 

[bnail]

This thread is one of the the most interesting I've read in a while. I never considered the practicality of carrying the primary rammer in the bore. This really aliviates the "Single stick" syndrome we all fear when walking off into the woods.
Is this carriage conjecture, or is there documentary evidence for this, I'd love to read more about it. :thumbsup:

 

[Light Dragoon]

Skagun;

Both Frank House and Mark Baker have said in personal conversations that they found documentary evidence for the Rev War period for the practice. My own knowledge of it is Plains era. In Wah To Yah and the Taos Trail Lewis Garrard mentions the carrying of wiping sticks inside the barrel several times. In The Oregon Trail Parkman mentions his guid carrying his that way as well (as I recall... been a few years since I read it though). I know that there are others, but I would have to dig through my notes (and find them first!) to get them to you.

Again, I am sure that this wasn't an invariable practice at all places at all times on the Frontier, but plenty of folks DID do this, so it's a perfectly legitimate thing for us to emulate.

Cheers,

Gordon