SCRAPING OR SANDING

[rfcbuf]

FINAL STOCK PREPARATION; SCRAPING OR SANDING. This past week I visited Davis Gun museum in Clairmore, Ok. They had over 75 Kentucky long rifles displayed. I noticed up close views that the curly maple grain had wash board surface effect when viewed at angle. Looks like stock surface when scraped with metal scraper as I do before final finish with sandpaper. Did old time builders complete final finish without the use of sandpaper thus leaving the washboard effect?

 

[Zonie]

I'm sure someone will tell us exactly when it was invented and bacame commonly used but it is my understanding that sandpaper is a relatively new invention.

The use of scraping is often seen on very old American guns.
An article I was reading in an old MuzzleBlasts commented on this and, according to the author the evidence of scraping is not seen on many of the European guns from the same era. He did not elaborate on what methods the Europeans used.

 

[phillippeters]

I did a web search and Sandpaper was patented by Isaac Fischer Jr, Springfield, Vermont on June 14, 1834. I would guess like powder horns scraping was used on older firearms.

 

[Zonie]

Sandpaper was patented by Isaac Fischer Jr, Springfield, Vermont on June 14, 1834.
____________________________________________
Dam! Another strike from the PC folks against some of my 18th Century rifles.

(But I already knew that and I for one don't mind that they don't have a washboard finish. )

 

[paulvallandigham]

WADR, I think you can remove the washboard appearance that comes from scaping a stock rather than sanding it, by Boning the wood when you finish with the scraping. Also, if you scrape across the grain, you are far less likely to have waves in the wood than even occurs with sanding by hand.

Boning forces the soft wood down even with the harder growth rings in the wood. Boning was used by cabinet makers and fine gun makers to make fantastic looking pieces that still appear in museums today. No waves, or washboard effect. Try it on your next gun. I think you will be pleased with the technique, and with the results.

Today, I would use a very highly polished piece of stainless steel for boning. But, you can use the shank on a screwdriver, or even real bone. I have thought about trying one of those " plastic" bones you see in pet stores, but I am not sure it will be hard enough for some Maple stocks.

You want a couple of boning tools to use, so that you can get into curved areas, like under the cheek piece. The smooth hip joint of a deer or cow was actually used by early makers for this purpose. Obviously, antlers can be rounded and shaped for this purpose, too. Use your imagination to solve the problems.

 

[Stophel]

You'll only get a washboard if you scrape with your scraper the same angle as the curl. Always angle your scraper diagonally and change the angle, and the washboard will never appear. Much of the washboarding on old guns is wear. Usually when I see washboarding, the gun is pretty well worn.

There were different types of powdered abrasives used on pads, but I doubt their use on wood. There were also various types of grass, rushes, etc. that would be cut, bundled up tightly, and used as an abrasive. I know this was used (in Europe, anyway), but don't know just how much they used it. I think that for the most part, they didn't bother.

I think most people would be aghast at all the scraper marks, file marks, casting pits, etc. that you will usually find on old guns, but folks are slowly coming around... :winking:

 

[Slamfire]

I think a scraped surface take a linseed oil finish better'n sanded. :winking:

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Shark's skin was used for abrasives long before the artificial stuff came along.
[url] http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=shark's+skin+as+an+abrasive[/url]

 

[Wehrmacht]

James Kranov is one of the world's elite cabinet makers. Get a copy of some of his classic books on cabinet making and wood working,and read why he scrapes and bones and NEVER uses sandpaper.It will give you a new perspective on working with wood.

My Grandfather,by whom I was reared,was making cabinets and working with wood as far back as the early 1900's-1910. He scraped with broken glass from windows and NEVER used sandpaper for the same reasons Kranov states.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

A well written piece by a well informed person.
[url] http://www.firelocks.com/page20.html[/url]

 

[paulvallandigham]

Thanks for the additional comment. After I read my post, I thought about going back and adding that, for the benefit of readers who have never worked with scrapers before. I didn't, and you caught it. I was talking about boning as this is the way to remove those waves when you have scraped incorrectly. And, boning does work, adding rich color, and constrasting fiddle back lines to the wood under the stain and finish.

IF you have never tried this technique, give it a trial on some small project. I was surprised myself at how much better the wood, particularly maples, look when they have been boned.

 

[Vaino]

I only use scrapers for shaping and for the final operation before staining and finishing, rely on sandpaper. I think most buyers now a days prefer a smoother contour than what scraping yields. Possibly customer education would allow a scraped LR to be as desirable as one that was smoothed w/ sandpaper, but generally that's not the case. I'm not a very PC guy but would gladly use scrapers vs sandpaper if accepted by more customers. Don't really know if most purchasers of LRs know or care whether the stock was scraped or sanded just so long as it looks good........Fred

 

[Swampman]

I like the scraped finish, and prefer it over the smooth sanded finish. Some of the better builders do it.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

I like the scraped finish, and prefer it over the smooth sanded finish. Some of the better builders do it.

And a few of the worst :rotf:

 

[Cherokee]

My dad told me when he was a little boy he watched his uncle use broken glass to scrape with. This was the 1930's

 

[Brasilikilt]

Shark's skin was used for abrasives long before the artificial stuff came along.
[url] http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=shark's+skin+as+an+abrasive[/quote][/url]


And also dog fish skin!

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Dogfish are the most common shark found.
[url] http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dogfish+is+a+shark&spell=1[/url]

 

[DrTimboone]

Well. I bought some Furniture scrapers at Woodcraft and got a lesson on how to sharpen and burnish them. They work wonderfully. :hatsoff: Just have to experiment with angles etc. The first gunstock I repaired and refinished back in the early 60's I used a broken Ball Mason Jar. Works fabulously...but hard on the fingers!! :redface: :nono: I am trying to build the fowler I am working on now without any sandpaper to finish it. :hmm:

 

[ronrryan]

There are some similarities between gunstocking and woodenboatbuilding. It was a not uncommon belief among woodenboat experts that scraping lent a better fine surface, particularly for fine brightwork or varnishwork, than did sanding, even to very fine numbers. Good smoke, ron in Fla

 

[rfcbuf]

Thanks for the reply and the info about using bone for final finish. Was the bone used the rounded surface of the bone or did they cut the bone to make a sraight edge and use that like a file? Also, can a hard plastic material used for rollers in some machines (feels and looks like bone and really hard like bone) be used in place of natural bone. Again using the rounded side of should it be cut to form a straight edge? From what you say I assume they pressed the bone on the wood surface to flatten the grains to one uniform and smooth level surface??