Seating Lead In 1851 Navy

[KingOfKindling]

I suspect what you have is a second-generation Colt, similar to this one:

https://www.riverjunction.com/3662

The above gun is said to be made in the 1970s, and based on these serial numbers, that would seem correct, as it would for yours:

http://proofhouse.com/colt/1851navy.htm

Yeah, I think you're dead on the money here. Same finish color on bluing and case, same stamping, same serial # range, and the same trigger guard.

This is a second generation gun not an original. Which makes a lot more sense.

 

[Trev]

if it was an original it should not be shot.

Why?
I think that if I owned it I'd shoot it, it was designed and made to be shot. I might not shoot full chambers with it though.

 

[KingOfKindling]

Why?
I think that if I owned it I'd shoot it, it was designed and made to be shot. I might not shoot full chambers with it though.

I have several originals, and shoot all of them. If I had an original in this condition though, I don't know that I would.

Never seen pictures of an original even close to the condition of this gun. I'd want to preserve it as well as possible.

If it were mine, and a real original, I'd be tempted to sell it and buy 5 more originals in a condition I wouldn't mind shooting.

 

[Trev]

Yeah, but all/most/some of the value of that appearance is gone now that it's been refinished?
I guess I see it that the gun was purchased just for shooting, and apparently after refurbishing and after expert verification is still intended to be a shooter. His gun , his money, his decisions. But , I can see your point of making a profit on it and purchasing another to shoot.

 

[KingOfKindling]

Yeah, but all/most/some of the value of that appearance is gone now that it's been refinished?
I guess I see it that the gun was purchased just for shooting, and apparently after refurbishing and after expert verification is still intended to be a shooter. His gun , his money, his decisions. But , I can see your point of making a profit on it and purchasing another to shoot.

Yeah, I'd imagine some value would have been lost if the gun smelled like cold blue.

I'd wager he only touched up some spots, as the gun doesn't seem to have lost it's original polish. Who knows what the value would be. It's not an original though, so this unique situation is kinda moot.

 

[nick_1]

if in fact you had an original and you refinished it the value takes a serious nose dive. The actual patina is part of the value. There are ways of restoring antique guns that does not harm the patina. Re bluing is a huge no no and has no bearing on shootability.

 

[bpalbee]

if in fact you had an original and you refinished it the value takes a serious nose dive. The actual patina is part of the value. There are ways of restoring antique guns that does not harm the patina. Re bluing is a huge no no and has no bearing on shootability.

The revolver pictured is original ...an original 2nd gen from the 1970s. Don't believe your lyin' eyes.

 

[Anneman]

Yeah, I think you're dead on the money here. Same finish color on bluing and case, same stamping, same serial # range, and the same trigger guard.

This is a second generation gun not an original. Which makes a lot more sense.

It's been authenticated by two different "experts", one was from Rock Island Armory. BTW 2nd Generation Colts are genuine Colts but this Serial Number according to Blue Book Pocket Guide For Colts IS First Generation

 

[M. De Land]

There are two different conversations going on here.

First: Chamber size. It's super easy to measure on a revolver. Remove the cylinder from the gun, and use a pair of calipers to take multiple measurements of the chamber mouths. You can get a cheap set of calipers good enough for this kind of work from Harbor Freight. You don't need a set of Mitutoyos.

https://www.harborfreight.com/6-in-composite-digital-caliper-63586.html

Second: What kind of gun is this, original or reproduction. Please take several in-focus photos of the firearm from the top and bottom, showing the entire pistol in the frame. Please include in-focus close-ups of any and all markings.

From what I can see, the finish is astounding for an original revolver. Even if the gun has been refinished, the stampings, like the name scroll on the top of the barrel, are still super crisp and deep, which would not be so if the gun had been re-polished.

In addition, the frame and loading lever still shows brilliant case hardening colors.

I am not an expert on historical firearms. But this gun is in such immaculate condition that if it was an original it should not be shot.

I suspect what you have is a second-generation Colt, similar to this one:

https://www.riverjunction.com/3662

The above gun is said to be made in the 1970s, and based on these serial numbers, that would seem correct, as it would for yours:

http://proofhouse.com/colt/1851navy.htm

Calipers will get a reasonable read on chamber mouth ID but are not the most accurate way to measure it. A split ball gauge and micrometer are accurate .

 

[Sorry Dude]

It's been authenticated by two different "experts", one was from Rock Island Armory. BTW 2nd Generation Colts are genuine Colts but this Serial Number according to Blue Book Pocket Guide For Colts IS First Generation

If you look at post #55 and see the proofhouse link and click on it, it will take you to a table and according to modern colts yours is from 1975 or 76. That makes way more sense, I handled 2 Originals from the 1860's last weekend and the stamping and the wood are dead giveaways. I would like to see the right side of the revolver, that would tell me more.

 

[KingOfKindling]

It's been authenticated by two different "experts", one was from Rock Island Armory. BTW 2nd Generation Colts are genuine Colts but this Serial Number according to Blue Book Pocket Guide For Colts IS First Generation

Yes second gen is genuine colt, just much later, and with some overlapping serial numbers. From what I can find online, the 2nd generation C series 1851 Navy revolvers started at 4201 and went to 25099. Yours is right in that range, and it looks exactly like a 2nd generation. Sorry man, would be cool if it was 160 years old, but it is not.

 

[Anneman]

Calipers will get a reasonable read on chamber mouth ID but are not the most accurate way to measure it. A split ball gauge and micrometer are accurate .

 

[Anneman]

I guess anything is possible. Many say 2nd Generations are actually better to shoot. Better made. Also according to Swayze there were more than 18 variations and even more sub-variations.

 

[Anneman]

Yes second gen is genuine colt, just much later, and with some overlapping serial numbers. From what I can find online, the 2nd generation C series 1851 Navy revolvers started at 4201 and went to 25099. Yours is right in that range, and it looks exactly like a 2nd generation. Sorry man, would be cool if it was 160 years old, but it is not.

BTW what makes it look like a 2nd Generation other than the condition?

 

[KingOfKindling]

BTW what makes it look like a 2nd Generation other than the condition?

Wrong triggerguard is one of the biggest. Wrong grip color - matches the majority of the 70's 2nd gen guns. Bluing is off, that's a modern blued finish, and I'm talking about the base finish, not anything cleaned up with cold blue. Stamping is too neat, and matches the 2nd gen guns perfectly.

And condition really can't be tossed out.

Nothing wrong with a 2nd generation Colt, they're nice guns. Probably the best out of all the reproductions.

 

[Anneman]

Wrong triggerguard is one of the biggest. Wrong grip color - matches the majority of the 70's 2nd gen guns. Bluing is off, that's a modern blued finish, and I'm talking about the base finish, not anything cleaned up with cold blue. Stamping is too neat, and matches the 2nd gen guns perfectly.

And condition really can't be tossed out.

Nothing wrong with a 2nd generation Colt, they're nice guns. Probably the best out of all the reproductions.

You certainly sound like you know more than me. I have no problem either way. When I bought it , it was in a wooden case and supposedly had NEVER been fired.

If you look at post #55 and see the proofhouse link and click on it, it will take you to a table and according to modern colts yours is from 1975 or 76. That makes way more sense, I handled 2 Originals from the 1860's last weekend and the stamping and the wood are dead giveaways. I would like to see the right side of the revolver, that would tell me more.

How do I find post #55?

 

[KingOfKindling]

Post numbers are in the top right of a post, in the blue bar.

Here's a link to #55.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/seating-lead-in-1851-navy.190201/page-3#post-2789248

 

[Anneman]

Post numbers are in the top right of a post, in the blue bar.

View attachment 377910


Here's a link to #55.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/seating-lead-in-1851-navy.190201/page-3#post-2789248

Thank you.

 

[Sorry Dude]

You certainly sound like you know more than me. I have no problem either way. When I bought it , it was in a wooden case and supposedly had NEVER been fired.

How do I find post #55?

That's probably an unfired cased 2nd generation Colt. The loading cutout on the right side would look different on an original.

 

[Anneman]

That's probably an unfired cased 2nd generation Colt. The loading cutout on the right side would look different on an original.

Looks like you're 100% right. I appreciate your help.