Set vs Single Trigger

[elarges]

I have a nice smooth, light trigger pull on my .44 cal poor boy, and was wondering something while reading some posts here.
What is the real benefit of set triggers over a single trigger that is finely tuned?
Not being a smart ass, but I've never messed with anything that had set triggers.
E

 

[Rifleman1776]

If your lock/trigger is set up properly you probably do not need a sett trigger. A good trigger pull can be achived without a sett. But, for serious target shooting many prefer the sett. It does give a very light trigger. If your rifle is of good quality it might justify having a sett installed. If not, you can be very happy just tuning what you have.

 

[BrownBear]

What is the real benefit of set triggers over a single trigger that is finely tuned?

In my experience, most guys are using their set triggers to overcome a really rotten pull when the trigger isn't set. Given a good pull without the set, they almost never use the set except on the range.

I've fallen into the habit of replacing shady set triggers on factory rifles with those from Davis. Not because the factory version isn't good as a set trigger, but because they're so bad without. All the Davis triggers I've used result in clean crisp pulls of under 3# when unset. Might as well have a good quality single in that case, but it's just easier to replace a sketchy set with a good one, then ignore the back trigger except on the range.

But I have to add, there are some factory single triggers out there that make me really wish Davis made the right replacement singles for the model. Nope, so then it's down to trying to mod the factory version to match a Davis. Not possible yet.

 

[necchi]

What is the real benefit of set triggers over a single trigger that is finely tuned?

Nothing.
But you could reverse the question and ask
"What's the advantage of a single trigger over a finely tuned Set trigger"?.
Nothing.

It's one of those debatable topics that refers to individual preference and experience that will never end, :idunno:

 

[elarges]

Yes. That's exactly what it looks like. :wink:
I'm cool with my single. One less thing to think about, and I know where and when mine breaks.
Thanks for the input, fellas.
E

 

[galamb]

It really is personal preference provided that both types of triggers are working properly/tuned well.

I "prefer" a single trigger but on some rifles they just wouldn't be correct so I do have a couple of rifles with set triggers.

To the "non-muzzleloading dude" a set trigger does look kinda cool and mysterious, but ultimately, if you ignore the "set" trigger it's still provide single trigger function.

When I build a rifle if I can find even a single example of a single trigger from the (historic) builder, I will go that route - less hassle to install, get working properly, and less to go wrong in the long run...

"personal preference"

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Few folks know how to properly place a trigger to achieve an easy crisp pull.

Having a well tuned lock helps

Set triggers can compensate a bit for a crappy production perc lock.

I prefer set triggers whether single or double for distance shooting.

The rifles that won the big distance matches, both muzzle loader and early cartridge guns almost universally had set triggers. If single standard triggers were the equal, guys like Pope, Mann and Pachmayr would not ha ave used double sets. ve

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I'm going to say it depends upon what you get used to. I can use either, but I actually prefer my single-trigger rifle. I cut cards with it, win matches with it, earned my Distinguished Expert NRA rating with it and have grown accustomed to when the sear "breaks". I don't view it as a handicap. Just one less part to fiddle with / depend upon.

Our Club's rifle match starts at 50 yards & then moves-back to 100 yards. Earning a DX rating is also a 50 & 100 yard COF of 52 shots in a single day. If not using a double set was a handicap, I wouldn't be as good as I am.

Shooting off-hand, scoring well starts with feet position, using the "close yer eyes & see yer natural point of aim" routine, doing EVERYTHING the same each & EVERY time, and don't forget proper breathing & squeezin' technique.... Using a double set trigger is but a small fraction of what it really takes to make 100 yard shots off-hand, IMHO!

Dave
NRA Distinguished Expert in Muzzleloading Rifle & Pistol (the Country's 1st)
NRA Certified Instructor & Chief Range Safety Officer
NMLRA Field Rep for Central New Jersey
Club Champion for Black Powder rifle, pistol & shotgun at (2) Clubs

 

[don hepler]

Well Zimmerstutzen is right on. A lot of people can't get the single trigger set right. Think about this.....you have the lock inletted in one place, and the trigger group inletted on another place. To get a good trigger on a single, requires the positioning of the single trigger to be at the best possible place to push the sear bar up, working against the strength of the mainspring and the amount of engagement, in the full cock notch. On the other hand, a double set trigger is using a spring to cock the front trigger so that it can fly up and smack the sear bar. Being under spring tension, you do not feel the amount of pressure, required to actually strike the sear. Does this make sense?

 

[nkbj]

For a hunting rifle I first had a single trigger and after thinking about it I can't say as a set ever did anything thing for me that I'd miss. On the bench it's nice. For me not so for hunting.
Planning on a rifle set up for Lyman .58 minie molds and one trigger... reckon I still like one!

 

[zimmerstutzen]

When I say distance, I am referring to the 200 yd schuetzen matches of the type shot by Pope and Mann, Or in the case of Pachmayr, 200 meters. He was European 200 meter offhand champion three or four years running. A standard trigger gun is rarely seen in such matches, much less the winners.

Such shooters have figured out whether something makes a point difference in a 100 shot match. Just saying, they wouldn't have used set triggers if standards would give them equal results.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I have a nice smooth, light trigger pull on my .44 cal poor boy, and was wondering something while reading some posts here.
What is the real benefit of set triggers over a single trigger that is finely tuned?
Not being a smart ass, but I've never messed with anything that had set triggers.
E

They each have their place.

Where I hunt the deer appear and are gone in a few seconds. When still hunting they occasionally jump and offer you just a brief opportunity. I much prefer a single un-set light and crisp trigger on my rifles; especially with cold fingers during hunting season. Same for my smoothbores, obviously.

 

[juancho]

I did a great deal of .22lr match and air rifle target shooting,and ,even if those guns did not have set triggers, they have hair triggers.
Just because I grew used to them , is that I prefer a set trigger.
I use them even in the dead of winter, but that ,I think , is a personal choice.
As to which is better, the answer is simple. Depends on the person and the application(I assume we compare similar quality/craftsmanship)
I have never seen a target gun with a 5 lbs trigger pull or a shotgun with set triggers.
But , then again, I may be wrong..

 

[hanshi]

I'm use to set triggers so I prefer them over single. However, the single trigger on my .62 EA fowler is a dream and would be great on any rifle. My set trigger rifles have (set) pull weights measured in ounces and I use them in hunting AND at the range. A single trigger is simpler, cheaper and can be adjusted for a very nice pull.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Got it.

IMHO it goes back to being able to breathe correctly & call yer shots. Knowing the moment the sear "breaks" if the shot "felt right" is something that Shootists like myself concentrate on, and we try to pass this info along in our mentoring. If ya run outta steam shooting off-hand you'll start stringing vertically. Those with single triggers probably don't yet have the experience level to go up against the likes of those you mentioned. When they get "schooled", they take a look at what beat them & instantly declare the difference is in the tool (gun's maker, double set triggers, sights, etc.) and why they "lost".... It's never about their actual ability. So they run-out & buy a gun with double set triggers "to equalize" the playing field. Trouble is they don't have the raw talent and/or technique to make use of the best tools....

I have been blessed with natural talent, and have been mentored along the way by several who are now my equals. I've never made 200 meter shots with my rifle. Farthest I ever hit without having to try too hard was 135 yards, when I engaged a set of Scott Air Tanks with my Uberti Colt Walker employing strong-hand only & a slight hold-over Elmer Keith style....

Knowing when & how the shot "feels right" means more than the tool in some cases.

 

[Vaino]

All the LRs that I have built have had single triggers w/ approx. 2-1/2-3 lbs pulls.

On the Hawken style rifles a DST is installed but only the front trigger functions....the rear or setting trigger has a metal block that makes it inoperative. If a future buyer wants to use the setting trigger, just remove the block. With a set trigger block, the front trigger travel is a lot less and the trigger pull can be 3lbs max.

A couple of years ago we were MLer elk hunting and my buddy who had insisted on using a set trigger had just climbed a steep grade, was breathing hard and saw a big cow elk. Set the rear trigger and the gun fired prematurely when the light front trigger was touched....a complete miss. He reloaded and a repeat of the first shot took place. When loading again, the cow elk walked away.

He later brought the gun over to the shop and a block was installed for the set trigger and the front trigger pull was lightened to 3lbs.

I think for target work and competition shooting, a DST is worthwhile....but, not for hunting.

 

[Col. Batguano]

the problem with a single pinned trigger is the closer the trigger is to the sear bar, the lighter it will be, and the more creep it will have. Much of the resistance to the trigger pull doesn't come from the tumbler, but from the sear spring. So if you want a really crisp trigger, you'll need to make the tumbler notch shallower, which also decreases some of your safety margin.

However, using a single set trigger gives you both options.

 

[Vaino]

Don't agree w/ most of your first paragraph....seems to be conflicting info......Fred

 

[Col. Batguano]

Just a matter of simple leverage. If you have a 2" distance to the middle of the trigger, and a 1/4" from the pivot point to the sear bar contact you have an 8:1 advantage. If it takes 8 pounds to trip the sear your felt force will be 1 pound. If you move the sear contact 1/8" further out, the ratio is 5.33:1, and the trigger pull weight will be 1.5 pounds.

The tumbler notch has some distance to travel before it goes over the edge and trips. In the first example, if the distance is 1/32", then the trigger (where your finger is) will need to move 8/32" (1/4"), and in the second example 11/64".

To my mind, the term "trigger creep" has to do with the amount of distance the trigger has to travel before the sear trips. So, in order to decrease trigger creep, you need to shallow up the amount of distance the sear has to travel. But, the shorter the distance the easier it is for a jarring of the gun to knock the sear out of the notch. Maybe I am misusing the term trigger creep though.

The sear spring pushes the sear bar down with some force in order to get the lock to positively click in to the tumbler notches. I have to confess I have not done trigger pull experiments both with, and without the sear spring installed to see what the difference is, but in pulling the trigger with an uncocked lock, it feels like about 2/3 of the force necessary to trip a cocked lock.

 

[Vaino]

In a correctly set up trigger, the tumbler notch falls away....w/o "creep" and as I said, the sear spring really doesn't exert that much force to cause a "heavy" trigger pull.

When starting to build LRs in 1977 , the lock quality was lousy, so I bought some Siler lock kits and built my own...including the heat treatment. A lot was learned w/ this work and this experience has proven worthwhile even w/ the quality Chambers flintlocks that I use.

I'm not going to explain sear/tumbler notch mechanics online, but it would behoove you to research this aspect and some good diagrams would fully explain to you how the sear/tumbler notch should be setup for "no creep".

Many mass produced locks have a sear/tumbler notch engagement that is not correct but is "lawyer proof" asre the safety issue......Fred