Sewing Machines?

[ryzman]

sewing machines are off limits right? tips of my fingers are killing me and i have a ton more stitches to go...

 

[Stumpkiller]

Barthelemy Thimonnier - First Functional Machine & a Riot

The first functional sewing machine was invented by the French tailor, Barthelemy Thimonnier, in 1830. Thimonnier's machine used only one thread and a hooked needle that made the same chain stitch used with embroidery. The inventor was almost killed by an enraged group of French tailors who burnt down his garment factory because they feared unemployment as a result of his new invention.

http://inventors.about.com/od/sstartinventions/a/sewing_machine.htm

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I am a re-enactor, military...,
I am also a participant in living history programs, and as such could label myself a "living historian" (though that sounds like I am a "historian" who is currently "living")...,
I have done hand sewing, I have done shirts, and a pair of breeches...,
I am well aquainted with "stitch counter" people, in fact I know entire groups of them...,

As such I can tell you this...,

The only freakin' person who knows I am wearing hand sewn items..., is ME, even among other living history enthusiasts, and..., if they are close enough to tell that the whole garment is hand sewn, they are displaying an unwanted level of intimacy. :wink:

So the only person who needs to be satisfied with the sewing is you when it comes to your clothes, or your leather gear. :hmm:

Once you have hand-sewn a shirt, and it came out correct, why do you need to sew all of them, other than it pleases you to do so? So by all means if it hurts, it isn't fun any more, and you don't wish to hand sew any more, then don't continue. Break out the Singer, and save your fingers..., that's what I do.

LD

 

[necchi]

sewing machines are off limits right?

Not at my house.

I have a 1963 all metal gear semi-industrial machine. It can straight stitch silk or right through 6 layers of canvis.
Nice machine, course it helps Ma was a seamstress. I think I filled my first bobbin at 6 and I was cleaning her machines at 12.

 

[LRB]

I looked at and handled a hand sewn linen shirt that came over from Ireland in 1840. The stitch was either 17, or 19 per inch. This was 2003. It looked exactly like machine sewn to me.

 

[Okwaho]

Wick,
I have a great book on 18th and early 19th century European clothing {no shirts}and I once asked Beth Gilgun how one could ever replicate the tiny stitches on these garmentgs and she said that it was really quite simple.It was called a sewing machine and that very few people could tell the difference between a garment made on a modern sewing machine and one done by a really good 18th century seamstress.I think the aura around "hand sewn" cloth garments is blown out of proportion.As an Indian I don't have all that much wool or linen. I have almost no handsewn garments and outside of applied beadwork or trim don't plan on any.
I know this is to some rather heretical but after all I'm just a poor old dumb Mohawk. :bow: :v
Tom Patton

 

[Black Hand]

sewing machines are off limits right? tips of my fingers are killing me and i have a ton more stitches to go...

I wrap my finger-tips with white athletic tape. Of course, I always do this too late, after I've already chewed up my fingetips. There is a certain pleasure in knowing ALL your gear is made in a period-proper manner....

 

[Firelock937]

It is really difficult to tell the difference between machine stitching and actual 18th century hand stitching. I think we tend to forget that people did not make everything themselves. There were very specialized trades and craftsmen. Not everyone lived in a log cabin and had to hack out every item they owned from scratch. I vote with saving your fingers.

 

[hogslayer]

Having spent many years working in the living history of the 14th century my approach has always been to use what ever methods i could to reproduce the article in question , First the materials ,then the tools followed by the construction depending on your skill level,to answer your question if you want something that looks the part go with the machine.I have made reproduction copies of 14th century iron needles and hand sewn all my clothing in wool leather & linen to stay HC.(all i can say is anyone no where i can buy a sewing machine)
(Pete)

 

[Black Hand]

So essentially it boils down to a matter of skill. It just takes practice to achieve the proper level of skill to replicate the stitching, and the only way to practice is to actually sew. Can't say my stitching is fabulous, but it sure is MUCH better than it was 10 years ago and not near as good as it will be 5 years from now after sewing a few more items.

 

[Black Hand]

It is really difficult to tell the difference between machine stitching and actual 18th century hand stitching.

From the outside, perhaps.
Looking inside the garment and on the cuffs/collars, it is readily apparent when it is machine-sewn. Also different stitches were used in different stages of construction, while on machine-sewn items, the stitching remains the same through-out....

 

[crockett]

I've sew a few things. What is PC? I had done a running stitch that leaves a non-continual line of thread- then, when I'm at the end, I go back in the other direction so that when I am done there is a continual line of thread- if that makes sense. I have also done the technique of starting with the middle of the thread in the first hole and stitch like lacing up a pair of shoes. I have also done the over lapping loop method- which uses a lot of string. What was the PC method?

 

[Black Hand]

If you have a copy of "Tidings From The 18th Century", Beth Gilgun has an excellent review of period stitching/sewing techniques. The book "Fitting and Proper" by Sharon Ann Burnston shows construction as well as details of the interior of clothing items. "The Cut of Mens Clothing" by Norah Waugh and "Costume Close-Up: Clothing Construction and Pattern, 1750-1790" by Linda Baumgarten also contain great information.

By overlooking the small details, the overall impression suffers.
As the old saying goes - The devil is in the details.....

 

[Loyalist Dave]

By overlooking the small details, the overall impression suffers.

Again, to who? The term "small details" is extremely relative. Who is suffering? The general public, the majority of living historians, or the few who know if they get right on top of you? Again, the only person who really knows is the person wearing the clothes.

Now hats off :hatsoff: to the very folks who get hand loomed cloth, from hand loomed thread (wool or linen or linsey-woolsey), hand dyed with natural dye, and then use hand spun thread with a hand made needle to sew the garment pieces that were cut with a hand forge pair of scissors, after measuring with a hand made tape or just a piece of string..., but otherwise....,

It seems that hand sewing a linen shirt that is from machine harvested flax, then machine spun, and machine woven into linen, using modern chemicals to whiten or dye the cloth, and using machine made thread with a machine made steel needle (a great many "small details" there)..., instead of machine sewing..., is a bit of sophistry, and an odd place to "draw the line" and pronounce a person's impression as "suffering"..., unless a person wants to master the fine art (and it is an art) of proper hand sewing. If it's not to master the sewing skill, then it's a spurious argument in my opinion, as you are still so far away from an authentic garment when you don a hand sewn item made by using modern raw materials as to make the point moot.

LD

 

[ohio ramrod]

A few years back a man from our local club wanted to join a civil war reenacting troop. He took his great grandfather's union coropral's unifrom for them to approve and they found five "faults "with it and asked where he got that "piece of #$%& ". He did not join. :idunno: :idunno: Details are important to some, sadly it is most im portnat to those who often "know " the least. :idunno:

 

[Black Hand]

Gee Dave, you sure read quite a lot that wasn't there...

I care not if someone uses modern needles, modern-made linen thread or cloth. I do care if someone doesn't pay attention to the small details; choosing instead to cut corners and use improper materials or improper techniques in the construction of a particular item.

But in the end, you do as you please. I, at least, will have the satisfaction that I have done it (whatever it may be) to the best of my ability using period techniques and materials. My goal is that my goods be indistiguishable from period items....

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Go to a thrift shop and look for an
older machine with all metal innards
I. Paid thirty buck for an old white brand sewing machine
Even sewed my own tent on it

 

[SpottedBull]

Are ya sewing leather or cloth?

I sew leather A LOT! All by hand...and eventually your fingers will develop some calluses and it won't hurt quite as bad...but that takes a while.

So get the machine!

 

[BrownBear]

Are ya sewing leather or cloth?

I sew leather A LOT! All by hand...and eventually your fingers will develop some calluses and it won't hurt quite as bad...but that takes a while.

So get the machine!

I wondered the same thing, and I'm going to take a flyer on it being leather, ryzman. Coupla three things:

If you pay a whole lot of attention to how and how well you sharpen/polish your awls, you cut way down on the wear and tear on your fingers.

Most guys use stitching needles with the large eyes like these for sewing. They are pretty fat, and get darned hard to pull through the leather as your fingers wear. I switched to a small harness needle with smaller eye. What a difference! You have to use some tricks to get thick thread through the small hole, but basically it means cutting the thread at an angle, biting it lightly to thin it at the tip, then being very careful about the angle of entry through the eye. It requires a little thought, good light and steady hands to thread them, but sewing effort is reduced by more than 50%.

BTW- By going to a very good grade of "Irish" waxed linen thread you can go to a much finer thread without sacrificing strength, another good way to cut sewing effort. This thread is what I use for about 99% of my leatherwork, at least till I get into leather heavier than 6 oz.

And raid your wife's lotion stores. Leather dries heck out of your fingers, and especially in dry weather or climates, you can quickly develop cracks in your fingers. Truth be known I prefer bag balm to lotion, but it's getting hard to find. Whatever you use, lather up those fingers before and after each sewing session and your pain will mostly go away.

 

[ryzman]

Yes i am working with leather and i posted half way through hand stitching a bag. A girl friend of mine had a modern sewing machine and she brought it over. i did a couple practice runs and found i did not like the look of the stitching.
long story short, I hand stitched the entire bag with a sewing machine sitting in front of me.
the leather is not terribly thick so i was able to push the needle through two and sometimes three layers of leather with a pair of needle nose pliers. each stitch took about a minute to make perfect. oh and im using super strong nylon thread with a leather sewing needle... #3 i think...
I just liked the look of the hand stitching... if i could have figured out how to make the machine produce stitches like that i would have used it in a second.