Shaping a horn ???

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

I recently picked up a cow horn to make into a powder horn. I made a powder horn over thirty years ago and had no trouble shaping the base for a plug. This new horn has had me in a state of confusion. I boiled the thing, a couple of times to soften the material. I had even turned down two different sizing cones of wood to form the base to fit the base plug. Each time I would fit the plug while the horn was hot and pliable. The difficulty comes after the horn has cooled, and usually the next day. The base of the horn returns to nearly it's original shape immediately after I remove the forming plug, preventing me from fitting the finished plug. I didn't have a bit of trouble with the first horn so many years ago. Has anyone used vinegar to soften a horn to shape it ? I can remember soaking chicken bones in vinegar and tying them in knots when we were kids, and letting them dry and harden in those tied shapes. I am stumped as to how to get this horn to bend to my will... Any suggestions ?

 

[Black Hand]

You can use hot oil to soften horns. The Sibley book on powderhorns has instructions on how to do this. They use this method for stubborn horns. For $20 or so bucks, it's a good investment.

 

[soggy]

Like Black Hand said; Sibleys book and boil it in oil. between 350F - 375F for 5-6 seconds, check it and try again for another 5-6 seconds. When the horn is boiled in oil it tends to keep its memory better than if it were boiled in water.
In answer to your other question about the vinegar and chicken bones. I remember doing that in school years ago and it seemed to work very well then. BUT I experimented with that method on a cow horn this past summer and it seemed to have no effect on the horn at all. Not really sure why, but suspect that it was because the horn is made from hair and bone is a different material. I left the horn totally submerged in vinegar for over a month, and when I took it out, it had not softened up at all.

 

[omarick1948]

Boiling water is OK for very thin cow horns, but you can't get the hot boiling water over 212 degree's. The hot cooking oil method is quick, but a little dangerous and can get messy. I like to use a hot air gun to heat-shape my horns. The type of heat gun you use for removing old paint. You can find them from around $15-$50, depending how good of one you want to spend!

Rick

 

[Allan Gray]

I started my first horn a little while ago, using the Sibley book, (and forum members), as a guide.

I used the hot oil method, nothing fancy. I put about 2.5" of canola oil in a pan on my stove, convinced my wife that it would't smell bad, (it didn't), heated it up 'till I saw the surface of the oil ripple and dunked the horn in for 5 seconds or so at a time, pulling it out and testing it for pliability, with gloves on, of course. I had my sizeing plug, which I turned from a piece of hardwood, close at hand...worked very well. In fact I was suprised at how easy it was. Maybe I got lucky.
The only thing I would add from my limited experience is that the oil method seems to be a very quick process. You've got to keep your eye on it or the horn will literally fry and burn.
Mine turned a very slight gold tint at the end that was submerged in oil, but I got it out in time before it was ruined. In fact, if I could get that same golden tint over the whole horn it would be a very nice finish.
After cooling, the horn hasn't bounced back to it's original shape at all, and it's been over a month now.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

Horner and Mr.Gray, I do have a heat gun for paint removal! I never thought of that. How touchy is the horn material? I hate the smell of burning hair and flesh, it stays with you for a lifetime. I guess it would be safe to say I wouldn't want to heat the horn a cherry red... :hmm: I like the oil method also. I'll give them both some thought. The horn material is thin on one side at the base. It is not transparent thin, just thin. My luck, the oil would flash and go up like Greek fire...Gotta beee keerful. Thanks for the tips.

 

[omarick1948]

The main thing to remember when using a HEAT GUN, is to keep the gun moving or you'll scorch & burn your horn.....Be patient! Use gloves! :wink:

Rick

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

Well, today I tried the heat gun method for softening the horn. It worked great for about a second. The horn split on the thin side of the base. I had the shaping plug ready, and as I heated the horn, started to push the shaping plug into the base of the horn. I was very careful in the heating and did a good job (I think)of spreading the heat nice and even. I think the horn was just too thin on the one side. It split like a wanted man with Johnny Law on his tail. The split was only about an inch or so. It didn't make a sound and was almost like plastic tearing. I only had maybe a a fraction of the plug inserted. No big deal. I hope to do the oil bath in the next couple of days. I'll trim the horn back and give it another shot. Then again, maybe I should have used a hair dryer for it instead of the paint heat gun. I could use some Miss Clairol hot oil treatment for it too, then lather it up with a nice coconut scented hair conditioner... maybe not.
I'll try heating the oil in the oven in a cast iron dutch oven and see if that works. It could be just one of those stubborn horns, or at least smarter than me. :hmm: :rotf:

 

[Allan Gray]

The coconut conditioner won't work. You have a difficult horn...try this approach;

Make sure you tell your horn how much you appreciate it. Never bring up other horns from your past.
Suprise your horn with a weekend getaway to a B&B.
Have flowers delivered to your horn while it's at work...the other horns will be jealous.

And above all, if your horn asks, "Does this plug make me look fat?" the answer is NO!

'Kidding aside, heating the oil in a dutch oven sounds like too many things that could go horribly wrong. Do you have a stove or better yet, a side burner on a bbq? Mine went pretty easily in a pot on the stove, nuthin fancy.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

Mr.Gray, I have a coleman camp stove. Do you think that would work well enough to heat the oil? It is just the common ordinary liquid fuel, pump it up two burner stove.
And next thing you'll be telling me is I'll have to run to See's Candies for a surprise box of chocolates. Do you think I should get the one pound or two, dark, milk or mixed chocolate? I don't want to 'horn in' on your personal business, but is that how you folks do things down in the south bay area? You kill me! :rotf:

 

[Allan Gray]

See's candy is no good...If you really want your horn to "put out" some high dollar "bling" jewelry is in order.

I don't see why a Coleman stove wouldn't work. All you're doing is heating oil, to a temperature similar to one needed to fry fish and chips, or anything else.

Like I said before, I'm not a horn shaping expert, having only done the one. It's just a matter of how big of a risk you want to take with your personal safety, and how badly you want to irritate your significant other, by doing it inside. :thumbsup:

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

Mr. Gray, are you going to Brushy Creek in May? I live just up the bay from you is why I ask.

 

[bingo1952]

For those horns that are a little on the thin side I shape the plug to fit the horn not the horn to the plug. It keeps me from making up a bunch of priming horns. :wink:

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

I'll give the hot oil treatment a shot. The thought of being reduced to a priming horn has crossed my pea brain more than once. I thought about making the plug to fit the horn as you mentioned, but I don't know who is more stubborn, me or the horn. I turned three nice plugs from some oak I had laying around. I am not opposed to shaping the plug to fit the horn, and I may end up doing that... If all else fails, I suppose I could make a few buttons out of it. :hmm:

 

[longshot47]

Never met a horn that didn't respond [favorably] to boiling water. Some take 20 or 30 minutes in the pot, but the splash'n burn, overcook, discoloration factors are much reduced, as compared to direct heat or boiling oil [ouch!] :stir:

 

[Allan Gray]

Mr. Gray, are you going to Brushy Creek in May? I live just up the bay from you is why I ask.

I hadn't thought of it...just Googled it and didn't know such a thing existed in these parts

 

[omarick1948]

I'd add something to this post, but I don't want to get into HOT WATER! :rotf:

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

Mr.Gray, Brushy Creek is behind Beale Air Force Base, just out of Yuba City and Marysville. Brushy Creek Rangers put it on. Mount Diablo Buckskinners hold a shoot there also about a month later.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

Longshot, my first horn... thirty years ago was a piece of cake to work with. I got it direct from a local slaughter house. It was still warm and dripping if you know what I mean. It was collected before it even hit the floor. I boiled the bone out and did my shaping all with no problem. But this other one is a real stinker any way you slice it. I picked that one up at a hide processing place. It was not a fresh horn. I boiled the dickens out of it on several occasions and fit it to the shaping plug. Everything would look great, almost perfect. I would leave it on the form for an hour, two hours, a day. It didn't seem like time on the form mattered to that thing. Maybe I boiled too many dickens out and should have left a few in. I tried the heat gun method which worked great and only took a few minutes. The bad thing was that a thin part on the horn split, so I stopped that right away. I trimmed off the damaged area and will boil the horn in oil now. I'll do that outside in case I make a mess. And if that fails, then I'll shape a plug to fit the horn. So now it is a matter of who/what is going to out last who/what. In the end, I can always threaten to turn it into a few buttons, but I may stop short at a priming horn. You have to understand, it is one of those California horns. Sometimes there is just no reasoning with them. :youcrazy: