Shooting 45 cal ball in a 50 cal muzzleloader

[Clint Meier]

OK, so I'll admit to having done this once sometime back, too! I took my wife to the range to shoot her .32 TC Cherokee while I was going to shoot an original 1860's Remington .40 cal. percussion rifle for the first time my dad had recently given me. After getting two benches all set up with rests and spotting scopes, etc., to shoot at 25 yds., and after helping my wife shoot and get her on paper and sighted-in, I discovered that I had left my .390 and .395 balls at home on the loading bench. After she had shot all she wanted to, I took one of her .310 balls and triple patched it just for grins and giggles over about a 35 gr. charge. I capped the piece and fired it off-hand, hitting the target (not in the black though) at 25 yds. I wasn't going to have gone through all that without firing the old girl at least once!

 

[Britsmoothy]

I understand on good authority to someone I know double patching a .562" in a .62" bore, smoothbore.
By all accounts anything rabbit sized and larger were in mortal danger!

 

[Col. Batguano]

check your patches when you shoot it. That will tell you a lot.

 

[eggwelder]

double patched .562 balls in my .58. Nice - ish group but about 24 inches high at 80 yards

 

[Thunder14]

I have heard and read about shooting a 45 cal sabot out of a 50 cal muzzleloader. My question is it possible to increase your patch thickness and shoot a 45 cal ball out of a 50 cal muzzleloader? Just curious

Ive tried it very inaccurate out of my T/C Hawken a little better in a Kentucky and not to bad out of a Frontier only tried it in three guns,tried different size patches dry and wet different powder charges it would work in a pinch I’m guessing wouldn’t depend on it being consistent.

 

[Timber Wolf]

I have shot my .56 Renegade smooth bore with .530 & .535 balls single patched with pre-lubed .015 patches. Just goofing and plinking at a 10” plate at 25 meters. Why? Because I cast the .530 and have lots of them and had to buy pre-made .550 balls. I can’t say how accurate they were, but I was ringing the plate all day long.

 

[Snydly]

A few years back I was running late to go big game hunting,,,grabbed the wrong hunting,pouch. At my hunting area I went to load my 54 flintlock only to discover I had brought my 45 caliber gear. Not wanting to go home I double patched my 45 round balls and went hunting. Did not get a shot ar anything but just before I went home I got a good rest and unloaded the flinter at a knot on a dead log at about 65 yards. To my surprise it was dead on for wind age and about 4 inches low. Might have got a deer if I had a chance. Good to know. I make sure of which hunting pouch I grab now....double check!

 

[Kap]

Thank you

I posted the same question as you suggested on modern muzzleloaders & they banned me for spam. It said to contact an administrator which the site won't let me do or even list who the administrators are ??

 

[retrieverman]

I posted the same question as you suggested on modern muzzleloaders & they banned me for spam. It said to contact an administrator which the site won't let me do or even list who the administrators are ??

I sure am sorry to hear this. I was reading down through this thread and am a little surprised by the snarky elitist responses. Evidently, this board isn’t a friendly environment for those of us on the left side of the learning curve.

 

[TreeMan]

If you have a .50 cal rifle and only have .45 cal round balls, you need to buy a .45 rifle to shoot those balls instead of buying .50 balls. It’s financial idiocy but in the end you’ll have a new rifle!! There is never an excuse too dumb to get a new gun!

 

[Grenadier1758]

I posted the same question as you suggested on modern muzzleloaders & they banned me for spam. It said to contact an administrator which the site won't let me do or even list who the administrators are ??

While using a sabot for anything other than as footwear (wooden shoe) isn't discussed on this forum, we did respond to using multiple cloth patches and under sized balls.

I think similar experiences have been reported on the Forum. One would do as @Griz44Mag has done and applied a double patch to the ball.

I seem to recall on one of the Woods Walks, as part of the scenario one of the team lost his pouch and balls. To keep him shooting, we furnished undersized balls and patching.

Yes, you can shoot a way undersized ball with enough patching to engage the rifling. Do expect the group size to open up some..

I will at least partially answer your question.
I was at the range one day with my 45 Pennsylvania.
A young man with a 50 TC showed up and set up next to me.
He was a brand new BP shooter, so when he bought ammunition for his new toy, he bought some 50 cal conicals, that were too big to even get started down the bore. He assumed the size should have been oversized like you do for those others.....
I only had .445 balls with me, so I helped him load up a .45 wrapped with 2X.018 patches.
So the .445 ball + .036 (x2) patch thickness made for a nice tight load - and they shot exceptionally well for him.
It saved his day - and made my day a pretty happy one because I get as much enjoyment out of helping a new shooter as I do shooting my own. The final load we used for him as a .445 ball, a .018 and a .015 patch (minked) with 65gr of his Pyrodex powder.
So get some thicker patches if you need to, or double up what you have, our BP guns are very forgiving of loads and patches - and are fun no matter what we shoot out of them.

 

[ohio ramrod]

About fifteen years ago on a trail shoot a fellow shooter had a hole in his ball bag and lost his 50 caliber balls. All of the rest of us in the group had 45 or 40 calibers. He finished the shoot using .440 balls triple patched and shot better than he did to start with is 490 balls.

 

[starr45]

I will at least partially answer your question.
I was at the range one day with my 45 Pennsylvania.
A young man with a 50 TC showed up and set up next to me.
He was a brand new BP shooter, so when he bought ammunition for his new toy, he bought some 50 cal conicals, that were too big to even get started down the bore. He assumed the size should have been oversized like you do for those others.....
I only had .445 balls with me, so I helped him load up a .45 wrapped with 2X.018 patches.
So the .445 ball + .036 (x2) patch thickness made for a nice tight load - and they shot exceptionally well for him.
It saved his day - and made my day a pretty happy one because I get as much enjoyment out of helping a new shooter as I do shooting my own. The final load we used for him as a .445 ball, a .018 and a .015 patch (minked) with 65gr of his Pyrodex powder.
So get some thicker patches if you need to, or double up what you have, our BP guns are very forgiving of loads and patches - and are fun no matter what we shoot out of them.

I have done it myself with the 45 patch down to 36 for smaller game like squirrels

 

[CapPopper]

The reason I'm bringing it up. I built a tradions percussion over 25 years ago when my middle boy was young. It was his project. With all of this crazyness going on with politics, I picked up the gun and tried to shoot it. MY first time for BP rifle. Didn't know anything about it. A gentleman at the range helped me out. He shoots a TC inline for PA deer season ( Allegheny county ) When I asked him about a 50 cal with 45 cal sabots, he told me they do that for speed and distance. The bug has bit me and I plan on getting a flintlock soon as they become available. I have a ton of cast 45 cal balls, but nobody has the molds in stock for a 50 cal. I do shoot a 45 cal 1858 traditions BP revolver on ocassion. I'm having more fun now than I have ever had shooting. I quit hunting over 25 years ago, but i'm starting to get the urge again. I thank everyoone for their answers.

Just to let you know you won't gain anything shooting a .45 ball. Probably won't gain any velocity and even if you do faster round balls just shed speed faster. It certainly will not out perform a .50 ball. That said if you happen around Ross county ohio I'll give you some .490s to get you going. My current .50 just hates balls and I can't make it shoot them worth a darn. My smoothbore shoots balls better.

 

[Notchy Bob]

...but nobody has the molds in stock for a 50 cal.

@Kap ,

Very few people shoot a bore sized ball with a patch. Most people go about 0.010" under bore size, using a 0.490" ball. A few of us (myself included) go even smaller, shooting 0.480" balls out of our .50 caliber rifles and pistols, to make loading easier. Track of the Wolf currently has Lee Precision double-cavity round ball moulds in stock in sizes 0.490", 0.495", and 0.500". They also have a six-cavity 0.480" Lee Precision round ball mould in stock. The six-cavity mould blocks come without handles, but the double cavity moulds come with handles installed. So, moulds are available now, although the original question was submitted almost two years ago, and moulds in popular sizes were indeed scarce at that time.

I understand you have a bunch of balls for your .45 revolver. These are probably 0.454" diameter, although some .44 caliber revolvers may use 0.451" or 0.457". There is no reason you could not shoot these in your .50 caliber rifle with a double patch, as described by several of the fellows in previous posts. To reiterate what others have said though, you will probably lose some velocity, and it may not be as accurate as a tighter fitting ball with a proper patch.

Please bear in mind that while .50 caliber is probably the most popular muzzleloading bore size, all rifles are not created equal. The rifles designed for conical bullets and sabots typically have a fast twist (maybe 1 turn in 24" or 1 turn in 30", as examples) and shallow grooves, while rifles intended for round balls have slower twists and deeper grooves. There are some rifles which have around a 1:48" twist which can handle certain conical bullets such as Maxi Balls as well as patched round balls. You can actually shoot patched round balls in any of these rifles, but any projectile with a plastic sabot should only be shot in a rifle which was made for it. I don't think the sabot would fill the deeper grooves of a round-ball rifle, which would result in gas blow-by, and likely a large amount of plastic residue melted into your barrel. This would make for a nasty and tedious cleanup job.

I know we are not supposed to talk about sabots on this forum, but I think in this case these few words are justified.

If you would tell us exactly what rifle you are shooting, chances are pretty good somebody on this forum will be familiar with it, and can tell you what sort of twist and groove depth you have in it. From there, a better determination can be made on a proper load. You mentioned it is a Traditions percussion, but they make quite a variety of rifles. If you are not sure of the model, maybe just post a photo. Somebody here will surely be able to identify it.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[stikshooter]

I have heard and read about shooting a 45 cal sabot out of a 50 cal muzzleloader. My question is it possible to increase your patch thickness and shoot a 45 cal ball out of a 50 cal muzzleloader? Just curious

your 45 cal patched round ball would indeed work however your 50cal sabot is an added cost with absolutely no rational reason for doing so . Your 50 cal ball has more bulk (knockdown)and if squirrel hunting (or mice) use less powder . Kind of like your wheels are round on the truck but you want to try squared ones , yup you can but it will be bumpy /Ed

 

[Colonial Boy]

It just happens that I tried this a couple of weeks ago as I discovered that some of the .490 balls that came with the H&A were a bit to hard and I was starting to cut patches; I had some .457 ball (just measured one) so decided to try them with some heavy denim (measures .038) first shot was a centre 10 and the next was a 7 at 4-o-clock.
See target, which unfortunately I’ve patched out.
I’ll be doing a bit of experimenting next time at the range, well next time for rifles, tomorrow is a pistol shoot.

Came up OK and my scribbles are readable

Here’s the previous target using the previously mentioned .490 ball

The two on the right are under a single patch in the 8 ring above ; one must be frugal, especially with club patches!!

 

[Flint Striker]

I tried it once with a .50 Lyman Deerstalker, a few .451 Hornady round balls, and just used two .010 (I think) patches instead of the single patch I had been using. It sounded normal, recoiled a little less, and hit a target at 25 yards a couple times. It’d probably do Ok for practice to use up 45 caliber balls or something.

 

[Eric Krewson]

He didn't say he had any .45 cal sabots. He said he HEARD they could be used in a .50 but wanted to know if he could shoot 45cal balls with thick patching out of a .50.

 

[Walkingeagle]

I shoot .575 balls with .025” patching in my 20g smoothie. It is very accurate.
Walk