Shooting bag contents

[jbwilliams3]

In the 18th century, one predominate term for the shooting bag was “shot pouch.” I believe the major purpose of these were to hold roundballs and/or shot. Most of the time when I am carrying a flinter my shot pouch includes that and just enough additional equipment to keep the gun shooting (a few extra flints, a rag, turnscrew). For rifles I also include patches though I have patches in the box of the rifle as well along with tow and a tow worm. I also think this makes it easier to find things.

Many items which people carry in their shooting pouches would have likely been carried elsewhere in the period. A folding knife would likely be carried in a pocket, just like today. Items like molds, ladles and lead, spring vices, etc”¦ I don’t see these things as belonging in a shot pouch. Soldiers, scouts, hunters etc.? I think it makes much more sense that ”“ if they had these items ”“ would be at home or rolled up in a blanket/in a sack, etc. All these lesser used, non-shooting-the-gun-type items I keep nearby at home, in my car or ”“ in the case of living history ”“ rolled up in a blanket in separate sacks.

 

[Artificer]

I am of the opinion that we don't have enough original 18th century Shot Pouches extant to make even a strong generalization about what they carried, especially as (I could be wrong about this) none of the original Shot Pouches found had their original contents?

Further, the 18th century Shot Pouches that have survived mostly seem to have been what we would call "day pouches" and used by someone back in more settled areas. Some of them are also decorated with stampings or the kind of accurate stitching that suggest they were made by tradesmen, rather than common home made Shot Pouches.

This is only my opinion, but I bet in the period you have found a lot more "stuff" in the Shot Pouch of a Longhunter/Scout or someone who went beyond the frontier often and especially for longer periods than a person who lived back in the more settled areas.

Gus

 

[jbwilliams3]

Gus,

My opinion, which only really informs my own practice and not necessarily my advice to others, is based more on etymology and practicality. I wholeheartedly agree on the lack of extant originals that can be nailed down to the 18th century. I think that a “shot pouch” is to carry shot and/or ball for a gun and keep it shooting while you’re working. Most all other items in a shot pouch still don’t make sense even for a market hunter or scout, etc. where there are plenty of other places to carry these extraneous things. In a rough fix, I’d think it much easier to stick my hand in there and grab a ball without wading through a bunch of things. For living history ”“ I know a shot bag would hold shot or balls so that’s what I use it for ”“ an ammunition pouch. I don’t know for certain that folks used it as a carry all, so I don’t do that. From a practical standpoint, I find it easier that way as well. I concede that others feel differently and could be right. I’ve done both, I just prefer simplicity in a shot pouch. I’ve even gotten rid of separate ball bags inside my shot pouches and just use loose ball as I find it much easier.

James

 

[Artificer]

James,

Thank you for the discussion.

I am of the opinion that 18th century hunters carried what they think they needed for the circumstances of their hunting and how far away from civilization and especially where hostile Native Americans or other hostile Europeans were around. For example, if while one was hunting their pack animals were stolen or they were attacked by too many hostile people, their only recourse was to run like the dickens with whatever they had on them at the time.

I don't know if we know if they would have carried a knapsack or some kind of extra period "carryall" on their person when hunting like that beyond the frontier. If they did, then they would not have needed to put as much "stuff" into the Shot Pouch. It seems to me from original sources that they left a haversack, etc. in camp or on their pack animals.

Now, please don't think I am trying to suggest everyone in the period carried a lot of stuff in their shot pouch, either. What I'm suggesting is they carried what they thought was necessary for their own unique circumstances.

Gus

 

[jbwilliams3]

Gus, Roger that. I suppose it depends on what one considers extra. I carry minimal stuff in my shot pouches compared to some and even then I sometimes feel like it can be too much. For instance, when I carry a small tin of tallow (a reasonable “extra” I would think), I sometimes feel like it’s in the way. Contrast that with a friend of mine who carries all but the kitchen sink. He was influenced greatly by Mark Baker who carries a pretty fair amount of things in his shot pouch, at least he used to. It’s also reasonable to assume that when in hostile territory, one could plan on losing everything but that which was on your person at any given time. I know some who carry backup Firestarter supplies in their shot pouch for this reason. If my life was really on the line, I might do the same. But for playing pretend, I can get by with stowing a little tinder in a pocket or in the hunting shirt and plan on starting an emergency fire with the lock of my gun. Otherwise, i suppose it's conjecture one way or another than a man on a scout or in a market hunting situation would do one of two things: carry extra items in a shot pouch that was a little larger than folks back east might carry, or carry a simple bedroll with them at all times which would have some additional items rolled up. I choose the latter, but I don't hate on the former.

 

[eugenenine]

Did there used to be a show your shooting bag picture thread?

Anyway in mine:
Possible bag RMC Muzzleloading
Pocket knife
#14 Leather Bag RMC Muzzleloading
.32 Caliber Lead round Balls Hornady
Nipple Wrench RMC Muzzleloading
Percussion Caps CCI
Shooting Patches Oxyoke Originals
Pistol Powder Measure RMC Muzzleloading
Brass Patch Puller Dixie Gun Works
Ball Puller Track of the Wolf
Inline Capper Dixie Gun Works

The knife is an old one my grandfather gave me, same grandfather that gave me the rifle.

 

[Cruzatte]

The contents of my trade gun bag:

• the bag itself
• leather bag and .610 ball
• a hank of tow next to the powder measure
• a folding knife
• a well used copper vent pick
• tool bag with:
• ball screw
• worm
• spare flint
• turn screw for the **** jaw
• powder horn

 

[George]

What, no beaver bait? :grin:

"Under the belly of all beavers is a cavity about 2 ½ inches long containing in two separate apartments what are called the oil and the bark stone behind it. The fluids from these two stones, smelling a good deal like asafetida are put together in some tight vessel”¦..I kept mine in a horn”¦”¦They compose about ½ gill. I kept some in a horn, the small end unopened and the larger end fitted with a bottom, having a piece of leather sewed around it, so as to make it tight, and a string to draw it out by, the whole so small that I could get it in my shot pouch."

Interview of James Wade by John Dabney Shane about beaver trapping in early 1790s Kentucky.

Spence

 

[Elnathan]

My set-up at the moment, strongly influenced by Mark Baker, is a single compartment bag, about 6 & 1/2" wide by 7 & 1/2" deep.In it is:

-a small turnscrew
-a buckskin bag with a drawstring containing a couple extra flints
-a linen bag containing tow for cleaning (which I have not actually tried yet!)
-a buckskin bag w/o drawstring containing greased patches
-a stiff rawhide flask/bag with a wooden stopper containing balls
-a shortstarter

Powder measure and touch-hole pick are attached to the powderhorn strap, and the worm and ball-puller are carried in the rifle's box.

I've also been known to put a small flint and steel in a finger-sized bag and a single bone turkey call in the bag, but only for storage, not while I'm shooting. Might keep the flint and steel (broken off file) in there, though.

To be honest I don't think I like this set-up all that much, and will probably do it much differently with the next gun if not this one. I find that getting all the components out of their separate bags is a lengthy and clumsy process. I think that the next pouch will have a divider, and I'll keep the turnscrew, flint pouch, and bag of tow in the inner compartment, and just keep the balls loose at the bottom of the outer compartment. I have a wooden box on my rifle (and so will the next one) so keeping the greased patches in the box would be problematic, and I think that were I to keep them loose in the pouch they would get dirty, so I suspect that I will end up keeping them in a sub-container still. I'll have to find one that I can access I bit easier than the bag I currently have, though.
I'd like to find a crown-load combination with the planned build that will allow me to ditch the shortstarter too.

 

[Black Hand]

To be honest I don't think I like this set-up all that much, and will probably do it much differently with the next gun if not this one. I find that getting all the components out of their separate bags is a lengthy and clumsy process.

I'm having a difficult time understanding how this process could be lengthy. I have something similar, and can get loaded in about 30 seconds. How would you propose to make the process faster? Fishing for loose balls would take longer than removing a ball from the rawhide pouch...

 

[eugenenine]

Not a lot you can do to speed it up other than say a loading block or similar to hold everything ready.

 

[SgtErv]

I keep balls and lubed patches in a smaller pocket sewn into the inside of my bag. They do get a little dirty if I don't use them that day. I do separate containers as well to contain the lion's share of the ammunition for this reason, but keeping five or six handy in that little pocket works really well when hunting or going to the range.

I have a wooden patch box as well. I wouldn't worry about getting it all funky in there from keeping greased patches. If using a patchbox works for ya, just plop them in there when you plan on shooting, maybe take them out when you're done cleaning if you'd like. I keep some spares in there just in case and it's ok.

I am forever fiddling, but am narrowing down a system that works for me, improving as I go along. Part of the fun!

 

[coloradoclyde]

Elnathan Said:

To be honest I don't think I like this set-up all that much, and will probably do it much differently with the next gun if not this one. I find that getting all the components out of their separate bags is a lengthy and clumsy process.

I can relate to that......Keep in mind though that storage, hunting, and target shooting....all have their own requirements.

 

[Cruzatte]

What, no beaver bait? :grin:



Spence

Eh......ya got me. :haha:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Not in the shooting bag. That's in the haversack.

Only what it takes to run the gun is in the shooting bag. ;-)

 

[cadb6942]

Depends on the season.. Small game i have a bottle of 6 shot and a bottle of powder. Trappers wool for wadding, 209 primers.. deer flintlock i have flints powder sabots a short starter a pick.. Just got the .56 cal smoothbore gonna have to set up for that now probally same as shotgun but with a nipple wrench and some caps.. as you can tell i dont carry much..

 

[Elnathan]

To be honest I don't think I like this set-up all that much, and will probably do it much differently with the next gun if not this one. I find that getting all the components out of their separate bags is a lengthy and clumsy process.

I'm having a difficult time understanding how this process could be lengthy. I have something similar, and can get loaded in about 30 seconds. How would you propose to make the process faster? Fishing for loose balls would take longer than removing a ball from the rawhide pouch...

Not if they have what is essentially their own dedicated pocket inside the pouch. As it is, I have to rest the rifle butt on the ground and lean it in the crook of my left arm, reach into the pouch with my right hand and retrieve the ball bag, remove the stopper with my left hand, rattle the ball-bag around with my right until a ball comes loose, catching it with my left hand. At this point I have to replace the stopper in the ball-bag while while holding the ball in the same hand. All this time I also have to balance the patch on the muzzle of my rifle OR I have to then retrieve the patch from its own bag while hanging onto the ball. Its doable on the range, but it is awkward, slow, not conducive to developing good muscle memory, and all in all not a procedure I'd like to have to follow if I was under pressure, had cold fingers, etc.

Compared to that, reaching into a pouch compartment that holds nothing but the balls and possibly a tin holding patches would be simplicity itself...Reach in, grab ball, place over patch on muzzle. Only requires one hand, leaving the other to hold the muzzle and patch, which is alone would be a huge advantage.

In response to the others:

I don't use a loading block because I think they were an innovation of the 19th century, and doesn't match my 1770s rifle.

The problem with using a wooden box for storing patches is that you have to hold and replace the box lid in the same hand with which you are removing the patch (the other hand holding the rifle). Same issue as with the ball bag...

 

[Black Hand]

I hold the rifle in the crook of my left arm, pour and load the powder, remove a patch from the tin and a ball from the bag THEN place the patch on the muzzle and the ball on the patch (This way both hands are available to to manipulate tin and bag). Ram the load home, prime and shoot.

 

[Elnathan]

I hold the rifle in the crook of my left arm, pour and load the powder, remove a patch from the tin and a ball from the bag THEN place the patch on the muzzle and the ball on the patch (This way both hands are available to to manipulate tin and bag). Ram the load home, prime and shoot.

It doesn't sound like there is much difference between our procedures. The exact type of our sub-containers might be an issue as well - it is not easy to get a ball out of my rawhide ball-bag nor is getting my fingers into the patch pouch and retrieving a single greased patch any easier.

It occurs to me that the last time I went shooting, after a very long hiatus, I was cutting and greasing my patches at the bench instead of using precut patches. That was indeed an awkward procedure and might be coloring my memory somewhat. I still think that I would prefer to be able to reach into my pouch and grab a ball with one hand instead of having to unstopper and then replace a secondary container.

Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast, but only if you aren't using a whole lot of unnecessary movements while going slow...