Skychief
69 Cal.
paulvallandigham said:
:shocked2: :haha: :v
-
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
Shooting high angle targets.......?
- Thread starter Skychief
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
:shocked2: :haha: :v
Skychief
69 Cal.
I wonder how many squirrel dinners Sierra's Infifnity Program has shot out of the treetops! :rotf:
C'mon now Roundball.....take me up on a little hickory nut shooting (heck it and basketball are pastimes here in Indiana :haha: )!
Let's throw out ballistic tables, fancy programs, software, hardware, theories, even geometry, calculus and quantum physics. I don't want you to think of me as full of :bull: .
Find out "where the rubber meets the road"! We want you to give it a try.
Again respectfully submitted for your consideration, Skychief.
C'mon now Roundball.....take me up on a little hickory nut shooting (heck it and basketball are pastimes here in Indiana :haha: )!
Let's throw out ballistic tables, fancy programs, software, hardware, theories, even geometry, calculus and quantum physics. I don't want you to think of me as full of :bull: .
Find out "where the rubber meets the road"! We want you to give it a try.
Again respectfully submitted for your consideration, Skychief.
I should probably stay out of this one but here's my take on it.
When a gun is shot horizontally the line of sight to the target is straight and holding the sights on this line of sight aims the gun.
The actual barrel of the gun is not parallel with this line of sight. It is pointed slightly upward so that the pull of gravity will pull the ball back down to the line of sight at the same time the ball reaches the target.
The pull of gravity is constant and it is straight down. When the ball/bullet is fired horizontally none of the force of gravity is trying to slow down the ball/bullet.
In order for the gravity to pull the ball back down as it approaches the target a certain amount of energy is used and for a given velocity and range this energy is constant.
When a gun is aimed at a target that is up high in a tree let us assume the distance from the muzzle to the target is the same as the horizontal distance the gun was originally sighted in at.
Because the distance to our new target up in the tree is the same as the horizontal distance the gun was sighted in at, the time of flight of the ball/bullet will be the same (assuming the same muzzle velocity exists) so the total amount of gravitational force expended or used will be the same as the horizontal shot.
Now, because the line of flight is pointed upward from the horizontal earth, the pull of gravity is not only acting at 90 degrees to the line of flight but part of its force is also trying to slow the ball down.
(To visualize this, imagine the ball was shot straight up. In this case all of the force of gravity would be trying to pull the ball down.)
Because part of the pull of gravity is still trying to deflect the upward shot ball back towards the line of sight as it was in the horizontal shot and part of it is now trying to slow the ball down there is less gravitational force left to pull the ball down to the line of sight.
The end result is the ball/bullet will hit higher on the target (or squirrel).
If you followed this go "pop a top" and tell your "significent other" that you've been thinking about Force Vector Analysis.
If you didn't understand it, go take an Excedrin, it will help the headache.
When a gun is shot horizontally the line of sight to the target is straight and holding the sights on this line of sight aims the gun.
The actual barrel of the gun is not parallel with this line of sight. It is pointed slightly upward so that the pull of gravity will pull the ball back down to the line of sight at the same time the ball reaches the target.
The pull of gravity is constant and it is straight down. When the ball/bullet is fired horizontally none of the force of gravity is trying to slow down the ball/bullet.
In order for the gravity to pull the ball back down as it approaches the target a certain amount of energy is used and for a given velocity and range this energy is constant.
When a gun is aimed at a target that is up high in a tree let us assume the distance from the muzzle to the target is the same as the horizontal distance the gun was originally sighted in at.
Because the distance to our new target up in the tree is the same as the horizontal distance the gun was sighted in at, the time of flight of the ball/bullet will be the same (assuming the same muzzle velocity exists) so the total amount of gravitational force expended or used will be the same as the horizontal shot.
Now, because the line of flight is pointed upward from the horizontal earth, the pull of gravity is not only acting at 90 degrees to the line of flight but part of its force is also trying to slow the ball down.
(To visualize this, imagine the ball was shot straight up. In this case all of the force of gravity would be trying to pull the ball down.)
Because part of the pull of gravity is still trying to deflect the upward shot ball back towards the line of sight as it was in the horizontal shot and part of it is now trying to slow the ball down there is less gravitational force left to pull the ball down to the line of sight.
The end result is the ball/bullet will hit higher on the target (or squirrel).
If you followed this go "pop a top" and tell your "significent other" that you've been thinking about Force Vector Analysis.
If you didn't understand it, go take an Excedrin, it will help the headache.
The gents who said that the ball will hit all 3 targets with the same sight picture are correct.
Gravity affects the horizontal component of the bullet travel, and in each case the horizontal distance is the same, 30 yards.
HOWEVER, should there be a wind blowing, different hold off's (is that a word?) will have to be employed, as the effect of the wind is dependant on time of flight and velocity, not distance. Of course, distance is what effects time of flight and resultant velocity, but the point I am trying to make is that the distance for the sake of elevation is the horizontal distance (in this case 30 yards), while the distance for wind compensation is the actual distance between the muzzle and the target, and they vary according to how high up thhe tree they are.
Regards
Ross
Gravity affects the horizontal component of the bullet travel, and in each case the horizontal distance is the same, 30 yards.
HOWEVER, should there be a wind blowing, different hold off's (is that a word?) will have to be employed, as the effect of the wind is dependant on time of flight and velocity, not distance. Of course, distance is what effects time of flight and resultant velocity, but the point I am trying to make is that the distance for the sake of elevation is the horizontal distance (in this case 30 yards), while the distance for wind compensation is the actual distance between the muzzle and the target, and they vary according to how high up thhe tree they are.
Regards
Ross
Correct...and I think there's been a sprinkling of changing terminology throughout this thread that keeps changing the landscape.
First, "will the POI be the same, lower, or higher"?
Next, will the squirel still be hit?
Next, will the sight picture still be the same?
Those are completely different questions.
A common problem with hypotheticals is that they start out never really precisely explaining all the elements and as replies start coming back in to the original hypothetical, it gets added to, shifted around, modified, etc. And one thing we can probably all agree on, its harder to hit a moving tagert than a stationary one.
For me, I'm a simple guy so I'll just restate my original answer which is that all up or down angles will print higher due to the pure influence of gravity...and just hang with Sierra, Winchester, Hornady, Remington, Marlin, Speer, Hodgdon, Lyman, Federal, etc, etc, etc, on that point.
:wink:
First, "will the POI be the same, lower, or higher"?
Next, will the squirel still be hit?
Next, will the sight picture still be the same?
Those are completely different questions.
A common problem with hypotheticals is that they start out never really precisely explaining all the elements and as replies start coming back in to the original hypothetical, it gets added to, shifted around, modified, etc. And one thing we can probably all agree on, its harder to hit a moving tagert than a stationary one.
For me, I'm a simple guy so I'll just restate my original answer which is that all up or down angles will print higher due to the pure influence of gravity...and just hang with Sierra, Winchester, Hornady, Remington, Marlin, Speer, Hodgdon, Lyman, Federal, etc, etc, etc, on that point.
:wink:
Skychief
69 Cal.
roundball said:
Those ARE completely different questions.
Of the three, I only asked the first. :idunno:
I'm not out to irk ya Bill. I respect you and will no doubt benefit from some help offered by you in the future. Let me know if I am carrying on too far with this. :redface:
Skychief :blah:
ohio ramrod
75 Cal.
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2008
- Messages
- 7,473
- Reaction score
- 2,208
Gee: here I always thought gravity acted in the verticle ( up and down ) instead of the horozontial ( side to side ). I guess my engineering and physics professers should have been out hunting tree rats intead of teaching about Newton's laws. And vector components :idunno: :idunno:
I followed all that Zonie. What you left out was that, in order for the distance from muzzle to squirrel to remain the same on the higher critters, you'd have to step closer to the tree they are in. That's why the ball hits higher.
According to the original post the horizontal distance from the muzzle to the tree the squirrels are in remains the same, not the distance from muzzle to target. The only variable was the height of each squirrel in the tree. Aim the same, hit the same. :v
According to the original post the horizontal distance from the muzzle to the tree the squirrels are in remains the same, not the distance from muzzle to target. The only variable was the height of each squirrel in the tree. Aim the same, hit the same. :v
Your right.
I got so carried away with some of the answers that I didn't get around to reading the OP. :redface:
Now, let's see.....
The OP didn't say anything about some magic ball that maintains its velocity and as we all know, the velocity of a roundball drops off pretty fast.
The squirrel that is up there 25 feet is only 31.136 yards away from the muzzle so the velocity drop (and increased time of flight) doesn't come into it so I'll stick to the aim low theory.
The squirrel that is up there 100 feet is 44.845 yards away from the muzzle so the time of flight is going to start coming into this shot.
The squirrel that is up there 220 feet is 79.233 yards away from the muzzle so the time of flight is going to be a whole lot longer. This makes the time that the reduced gravitational force on the balls trajectory (due to the steep angle) a lot longer to effect the path of the ball.
This one is making my head hurt. Where's the Excedrin?
I got so carried away with some of the answers that I didn't get around to reading the OP. :redface:
Now, let's see.....
The OP didn't say anything about some magic ball that maintains its velocity and as we all know, the velocity of a roundball drops off pretty fast.
The squirrel that is up there 25 feet is only 31.136 yards away from the muzzle so the velocity drop (and increased time of flight) doesn't come into it so I'll stick to the aim low theory.
The squirrel that is up there 100 feet is 44.845 yards away from the muzzle so the time of flight is going to start coming into this shot.
The squirrel that is up there 220 feet is 79.233 yards away from the muzzle so the time of flight is going to be a whole lot longer. This makes the time that the reduced gravitational force on the balls trajectory (due to the steep angle) a lot longer to effect the path of the ball.
This one is making my head hurt. Where's the Excedrin?
Skychief
69 Cal.
Jethro224 said:
:hatsoff:
Similar threads
