Shooting my Pedersoli Frontier

[dikman]

So, today I finally got out to continue sighting in my Frontier. Managed to get 22 shots in. At least they all hit the target (that's the good news) :grin: .

.50 cal, .490 ball, 70 gns 3f shooting at 50 metres off a benchrest support. Swabbing between shots.

Result - no discernible groupings! A couple of times I got two next to each other and then they would wander off somewhere else on the target. Most perplexing. Had a couple of more experienced shooters a trifle puzzled.

The fired patches looked good, with no cutting/tearing/shredding, using a beeswax/mutton tallow lube. Tried a .495 ball, but that seemed to make it worse!!

Looks like it's back to square one, this time I'll start with 70 gns. 2f and patches lubed with a cutting oil mix. See if the rifle likes this combo better. I guess it's all part of the BP/flintlock magic :haha: .

One good thing came out of it - the previous time I had a devil of a time with getting the thing to fire reliably (if you can use that term with a flinter :wink: ), but this time it behaved itself beautifully. The first misfire was at shot 18 (not enough powder in the pan) and then at 21 the flint finally stopped flinting!! A quick chipping of the edge and away it went. Best of all, it was a lump of flint that I knapped (and I use the word very loosely!!) myself. Not pretty to look at, but it worked.

Just as well that I like a bit of a challenge.......

 

[Treestalker]

Don't know if it will help, but my brother Tiny used to shoot a .50 CVA mountain rifle in competition with a .490 ball patched with pillow ticking (washed to remove sizing) Crisco for lube and 90gr 2f and once won a first place at 100 yds. I know every rifle is different, but a different powder chsrge sometimes helps. Do you cut your patches at the muzzle? Good luck with your gun, accuracy is trapped inside, just waiting to be unleashed! George B. :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

[scotsman]

Hi Dikman, I had a Frontier which liked 80 grns 2F, over powder wad, .o15 ox yoke lubed patch and a .490 RB. It was also more than fine with 60-70 grns of 2F. A deadly hunting load for white tail was 80 grns of 2 F and a 350 grn TC maxi ball (no over powder wad)

 

[Pete G]

Sounds like maybe the connection between the gun and ground might be a little loose.

These things require a severe amount of follow through on every shot. It takes a while to convince the brain that the fire breathing mouse trap right there in your face really will not harm you, so just keep up the practice sessions. After a short while it will all come together.

 

[Alden]

On those points...

Dikman, change only one attribute at a time. Keep the lube. Go to 80 grains (I'd have been using 2F BTW). Yeah, I know it's more expensive to use more powder but what's the point of shots all over the place relatively speaking? OK, even THAT'S fun, but...

As for the flinching, try letting someone else "load" the gun for you a half a dozen times out of sight and not tell you when the gun isn't actually loaded some of those times and see how much the gun "moves" when you pull the trigger...

 

[Critter Getter]

I have read that Italian barrels need a break in of 100-200 shots before they start grouping. I have no idea if this is true or not. I do know that I have maybe 35 shots out of my Frontier flinter and am looking forward to seeing if the groups get better after shooting it a hundred plus shots or more. My gun has been very reliable as far as going off as it has never misfired yet. Greg

 

[BrownBear]

...a break in of 100-200 shots ....

That's generally true, but the good condition of his recovered patches is a little perplexing if that was going on. In my experience, your patches look like heck if that break-in period is needed, but if they're looking good so are the groups.

Both my Frontier 50's (one flint and one percussion) have settled in to prefer 80 grains of 3f Goex with .490 ball, .018 ticking patch and some kind of grease lube rather than liquid. But even at 70 grains or 90 grains or whatever else, they were at least grouping. It's just that groups were best at 80.

I have to guess that it's a question of the link between the shooter and the gun, as others propose. Flinters do take a little break-in time if it's the shooter's first flinter, but it doesn't have a heck of a lot to do with the inherent accuracy of the gun and which load it groups best. It's more about breaking in the shooter than breaking in the gun.

 

[biliff]

I'd try cutting the distance back to 25 meters and see what you get.

 

[longcruise]

Maybe something loose in the sighting system?

 

[larry wv]

I have a couple .54 cal Blueridge flinters. Close if not the same as a Frontier. They both like 90grs of 3f. I would try as several have said more powder and maybe more and 3f if you have it. Also try around 50 or so if you punch paper a lot. :idunno:

 

[dikman]

Thanks for the input, guys, it's always good when others comment as it can give a different perspective (plus, of course, all the invaluable experience that others have).

First off, I have no doubt that there's nothing wrong with the gun, as such, other than the sights being off.

Second, I'm not flinching. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the pan going off doesn't bother me.

Third, I'm benchresting to try and eliminate/reduce barrel movement. Once I know it can group then I'll go to off-hand.

Fourth, sights are a tight fit (very tight!!).

Alden, you are quite right, of course, and I shouldn't change several things at once. I'll start with the powder, as has been suggested. 70 gns of 2f, to see what that does, and I'll also make up some increased loads to work up a bit at a time.

At least I'm happy that I've sussed out the loading/firing sequence (blasted patent breeches!).

It's all good (dirty) fun :grin: .

 

[Alden]

We're here for ya mate!

 

[MSW]

you could buy several more pounds of powder and a few hundred more ball, as well as more patch and lube, and time at the range, but to speed thing up, give Dutch Schoultz' method a try. Here's a link: http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

He sets the system up with cap shooters in mind, but his method works on flint, as well. This will be the best muzzle loading accessory you've ever bought.

Make good smoke!

 

[tecum-tha]

Agree with Dutch Schoultz papers and you did not mention what patch material you used.
You mentioned swabbing between shots.
How did you do that? This may be one key to the bad groups.
What kind of balls do you use? Self-cast? Weighted?
How big was your target???

 

[Kapow]

Sorry to hear things didn't quite go as planned. Not to insult your intelligence but I am guessing you are using pillow ticking for patch? It seems to be the standard and certainly the one that gives me the least dramas across the board.

I would try using a different lube first such as wonderlube. Also I would consider getting an experienced shooter to have 5 shots off the bench just to make sure there is no problem with your form.

Keep at it and good luck. Did I mention that my Kentucky is a tack driver??? :blah: Sorry!

 

[Alden]

LOL NEW Kentucky at that!

 

[dikman]

Thanks Kapow, your sympathy is most touching :wink: .

I'm using some heavy canvas for patching, it's stronger (and thicker) than what passes for pillow ticking these days. As for swabbing between shots, I run a slightly damp patch down and up (NOT all the way to the breech, I found that causes problems with the patent breech). This method has worked well on my .45 caplock.

I cast all my projectiles myself (bottom pour pots and Lee molds). I should mention that this particular mold is out-of-round (faulty Lee product) but I wouldn't have thought it should make that much difference at 50 metres (standard International target, btw).

 

[William O.]

I agree with giving Dutch's information a read and consider getting his packet as it's money well spent.

I would offer this advice;
Start with a powder charge of 50 grains, shooting three to five times swabbing between shots and then increasing the charge by 5 grains and repeating. Always aim at the same spot and don't change anything else until you find the powder charge that is the most accurate. It should equal to about 1.5 times the caliber of your rifle, but this is not always the case, thus the reason to work up a load in each individual rifle. I have found there is a difference in pillow ticking and mattress ticking, the latter being the best. It needs to be 100% cotton and a tight weave; the stuff I get in my area is about .018 thick. Lube with olive oil or Ballistol if you can get it. There should only be enough lube to make the material feel slightly oily, too much causes accuracy problems. Whichever you choose, make sure it is consistently applied on all of your patching material. Do not change lubes or adjust your sights while you are finding the best powder charge for your rifle. Change only one variable at a time, and be consistent. I find that taking notes helps me remember not to try and reinvent the wheel at each subsequent range session.
Lastly, swabbing between shots. I find that cotton flannel that is lightly dampened with 91% rubbing alcohol to remove the majority of powder fouling from the bore. The key here is "lightly dampened" and if you can squeeze a drop out then it's too much. Alcohol has a much lower boiling point than water so it evaporates quickly with less risk of contaminating a fresh powder charge, plus it naturally contains a little water and quickly wipes fouling away. Always use a cleaning jag for swabbing too. Once you have everything adjusted and sighted in then try Dutch's dry lube recipe and see if you can improve your rifles accuracy even more.

 

[Alden]

POB: canvas-Patched .490 (or .495) Oblong Ball.
:hmm:


"Elementary my dear Watson." Miiight wanna try thinner/less-stiff patch and ROUND ball before anything else Dikman -- I'm just sayin'.

 

[Kapow]

As they say on Mythbusters, "There's your problem!"

Get some pillow ticking from Spotlight, put it in with the washing and dry on the clothes line. Buy some perfectly round balls such as Hornady and try again. I'd be surprised if you don't give my Ken tuck a run for its money. Alternatively buy some cast balls from Green River Rifle Works. Nice work on the flint knapping (sounds like a rock abduction!).