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Shooting my Pedersoli Frontier

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One of the reasons I'm using the canvas is that it's a tighter weave than the "ticking" I've bought at Spotlight (the quality of which seems to vary somewhat).

I also tried some .495 balls, which I checked with a micrometer and they are round and to size, but didn't notice any real difference in performance.
For swabbing I use a diluted cutting oil (which, btw, is what Dutch used until they changed the formula) and the patch is barely moist, so as you can see I'm already using some of his ideas.

I've been doing more reading, and am wondering if my patch lube is actually too slippery for this rifle. Just because it works on my .45 doesn't mean it's right for this one.

So, I have a couple of things to try - powder and lube. I think the first thing is patches lubed with diluted cutting oil, using the same load as before. Depending on the outcome of that, then switch to 2f and different loads. I'm happy enough with the patch material, as it's holding up well to being fired, unlike the ticking which was shredding even in my .45.

This is giving me lots to think about, just a pity it's not all as logical as doing a Sudoku :hmm: .
 
There is one other possibility that you haven't considered yet. Maybe you just suck at it?

:rotf: :haha: :surrender:
 
Shooting from a bench will help but if you don't squeeze and follow through your groups can still suck.
I have read about how fast a flint lock will fire but I still believe in holding on target so you don't move during the shot.
Easy to say hard to describe at least by me :thumbsup:
 
Sorry for that earlier post... I hit the range today and shot my Sthrn Mtn .40 flint, my Pedersoli Kentucky .50 flint and my CVA percussion .54 Mtn rifle. All three rifles shot one and a half inch 5 shot groups at 50 yards off the bench. Very happy with that but it didn't happen overnight!

Then I decided it was time to learn how to shoot a flint properly so I stood up and had two lots of half a dozen shots at 50m. Well it was like I had drunk a bottle of whiskey and been hit on the head with a shovel! My shots were all over the place. The second spread I tamed it a bit and got them at least on the black. My point is, don't give up, just enjoy the process and the learning.
 
That's ok, Kapow, I've been insulted by experts :wink: . (It'll be a sad day when we can't have a bit of fun on here).

I'll freely admit that when it comes to shooting my 1858 Remington I do indeed suck at it!!! I'm about to start building a .45 cal smoothbore pistol - what's the bet I'll suck at shooting that too? :rotf: .

Doesn't really matter, it's a challenge to be able to get these things shooting, it's something quite different to "normal" shooting and most of all it's FUN :thumbsup: .
 
Well Dikman, that last point is correct. Dial your gun in through logical trial and error, but, at the end of the day, you are doing the best you can for you and having fun shooting. I have found that scoring targets helps keep one focused but it is about a fun day...

...and be safe.
 
A question for clarification, to (probably) eliminate another potential source of inaccuracy: How are you benching this rifle - what type of surface and where supported?

Regards,
Joel
 
Joel, the bench is a cast concrete slab (these are designed specifically for shooting at ranges) supported on concrete blocks - absolutely no movement there. The support is one I made myself from steel, with the rifle barrel resting on a bag filled with Perlite, supporting about half-way along the barrel. I understand where you're coming from with your question, and there could very well be some slight movement when fired, but nothing to explain the inconsistency I'm getting.

This same system works fine with my caplock rifle (same barrel length).
 
The question has to do with both stability of the support and with barrel harmonics. Since these barrels are seldom if ever free floating, it is often found that location of the support can change group size and/or POI, and many shooters will place the bags at the usual location of their supporting hand. I have a flintlock Frontier carbine in .32, and with that large lock in such a light rifle, I can even see a difference in how firmly I hold it, much like in pistol shooting, although not as drastically. When I shoot it from a bench, I hold the foreend just like normal but with the bags/rest under my left/supporting hand.

Another idiosyncracy of the Frontier and Blue Ridge, as well as other versions of Hatfield if I recall correctly, is that the barrels are retained in the stock by neither pins or wedges, but by screws through (and retaining) the ramrod ferrules, in addition to the tang screw. The tension on these ferrule screws is critical to the bedding, and they can work loose without being noticed.

I apologize if I'm belabouring the familiar, but these points had not yet been clarified in the discussion.

Regards,
Joel
 
Both have been checked, azmtnman :blah: .

Joel, no apologies necessary. Trying to diagnose problems when you're not actually there is not easy, as people sometimes assume something has been done when in reality it's been overlooked.

I have read about the possible problems with barrel harmonics, relating to where and how the barrel is supported, and you are quite right in that it could doubtless affect accuracy, but in this case I think the complete lack of obvious groupings puts this way beyond that!

I think I have a more "basic" problem to sort first.

I went to the range yesterday, armed with a heap of different patches lubed with soluble oil and some 2f powder. Unfortunately, I found that a "re-anactment" group had arranged to use it, and as they were shooting from part-way down the range it meant no-one else could shoot!!!
 
Finally got out again. An interesting day. 70 gns 2f and three types of patches, lubed with 10:1 cutting oil/water and patches dried so that they were barely damp.

First three shots looking good, then they started opening up! Tried a slightly thinner patch, easier to load but no improvement. Tried a thicker patch but had to ram it down hard. Although I'm swabbing between shots there seemed to be a build-up of fouling just above the breech. After 14 shots I called it quits and had lunch!!

After lunch, figured I'd start from scratch again. First three shots with a thick patch not too bad, changed to the looser patch and it opened up. Ok, that rules out the thinner patch. Then I decided to try more lube on the patches - wet, but not dripping. Much better, this time they all went in roughly the same area of the target. Oh joy! Grouping wasn't brilliant, about a 6" circle, but at least it constitutes a grouping!

Now, if I can just repeat this next time I reckon I'll finally be getting somewhere.

What is really annoying, though, is that I bought a used .45 CVA Mountain Rifle (caplock). I took it to the range, 50 gns. 3f, my beeswax/mutton tallow patches and with no adjustment to the sights it grouped better straight off! Amazing.
 
With these front stuffers and suppository rifles shooting black powder can make you scratch your head till it bleeds figuring out what is going on.
If one is honest with themselves you will find the biggest problem is what is the nut behind the butplate controlling the rifle. These rifles have most generally a very long barrel and that increases the hang time the ball spends in the barrel and this increases everything the nut behind the butplate does controlling the rifle like changing the grip when he fires the shot. Unconsciously pushing the shoulder forward or follow through to mention a few things that will open up a group. You can say or think that you don't have any bad habits, but just forget to pull the cock back to full cock sometimes. This will show you right off what your doing wrong if you pay attention.
Yes patches, lube, powder will make a difference , but the nut behind the plate will screw up the best the rifle can do.

Butch
 
My 45 frontier demands a very wet patch and I have won a lot of events with it. So I feed it what it likes.
 
dikman said:
That's ok, Kapow, I've been insulted by experts :wink: . (It'll be a sad day when we can't have a bit of fun on here).

I'll freely admit that when it comes to shooting my 1858 Remington I do indeed suck at it!!! I'm about to start building a .45 cal smoothbore pistol - what's the bet I'll suck at shooting that too? :rotf: .

Hello dikman,
Since you are considering the fine sport of target shooting.
My I suggest a large smooth bore ( .60 or better ), with a muzzle like a trombone with many balls, tightly wrapped in patches,( say about .25 cal.)
This method has drastically, increased my probably of hits at ten feet.
I have amazed all my buddies with my proficiency at precise target shooting :bull: .
Fred

Doesn't really matter, it's a challenge to be able to get these things shooting, it's something quite different to "normal" shooting and most of all it's FUN :thumbsup: .
 
Nothing to lose at this point by loading it with your best load and letting a sharpshooter with a lot of flint experience have five off the bench just to see how much of it is form and how much is the gun. I don't want to sound condescending but I am suspicious of a flinch?? Don't quit yet. AJ
 
The "scattergun" approach (but on a larger scale)! Could work, Fred, but I suspect some in the club might frown on it :haha: .

I've been watching for any signs of flinch, and I'm pretty sure there aren't any. I'm benching to try and eliminate as many things as I can. Once I can establish a set of repeatable conditions, then I've got a base line to make changes from.

Don't worry, I'm not giving up, this thing is NOT going to beat me (I don't care how much powder I have to pour down its hungry little throat, I shall tame the wee beastie!).
 
To be that inconsistent I am thinking 1. balls are not true. 2. shooter is not on form, 3. Barrel is a banana. That's all I got. :hmm:
 
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