Blackwater72
32 Cal.
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Hate to be a pest...folks here awful helpful about powder loads...but what's the deal on dry patches vs. lubed patches for shooting purposes?
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Shooting patches
- Thread starter Blackwater72
- Start date
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Well folks don't really use dry patches. You need some kind of lubrication.
You may have seen the term "dry-lubed" patches.
This is a process of mixing a souluble oil with water to a specific ratio (a variable for each user) then allowing the water to evaporate, leaving the oil in the patch fabric. Thus "dry",,"lube".
Member Dutch Shoultz markets the process. http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/
It's a fantastic scientific approch to eliminating variables with the PBR in Muzzle loading guns.
I would personally Highly recomend getting the system if your interested in getting the most accuracy from your gun's. :thumbsup:
You may have seen the term "dry-lubed" patches.
This is a process of mixing a souluble oil with water to a specific ratio (a variable for each user) then allowing the water to evaporate, leaving the oil in the patch fabric. Thus "dry",,"lube".
Member Dutch Shoultz markets the process. http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/
It's a fantastic scientific approch to eliminating variables with the PBR in Muzzle loading guns.
I would personally Highly recomend getting the system if your interested in getting the most accuracy from your gun's. :thumbsup:
Last edited by a moderator:
Patches should always be lubricated with something before they are shot.
I know that more than one dry patch has become stuck in the barrel while it and the ball were being rammed down the bore during loading.
(If this happens, dump a little water down the bore and let it sit for a few minutes. Then dump the water out of the bore and ram the ball the rest of the way down to the powder load.)
The patches job is to seal the rifling and to grab it tightly so that when the gun is fired it will transmit the rotation to the ball.
Because sealing is a large part of its job, it should always be thicker than the depth of the rifling grooves.
The lube on the patch not only helps with loading but it helps prevent the hot gases from the exploding powder from burning the material.
It also lubricates the bore and rifling so it is less likely to be torn on its way out of the barrel.
Folks have used everything from spit to vegetable oil to the store bought wonder lubes and they all work, some better than others.
As a general rule, don't use a petroleum oil on your patches. The oil will mix with the fouling produced by the black powder (and other powders) to produce a hard tar like fouling that is much more difficult to remove.
Where black powder fouling is water soluble, petroleum oil fouling is not.
As for pre lubed patches often bought at a gun store they are fine If they are NEW or fairly new.
The problem here is that many of them have been sitting on the stores shelf for years and the oils/lubes that are on them will cause the material to loose its strength and tear when they are loaded or shot.
While I'm on the patch subject, when a muzzleloader is fired with a patched ball, make an effort to recover the fired patches.
They should not have rips or tares in them where the ball contacted the bore.
The center area can look almost new to dark brown or even slightly charred but it should not be burned thru.
The outside edges will always look frayed. This is normal.
I know that more than one dry patch has become stuck in the barrel while it and the ball were being rammed down the bore during loading.
(If this happens, dump a little water down the bore and let it sit for a few minutes. Then dump the water out of the bore and ram the ball the rest of the way down to the powder load.)
The patches job is to seal the rifling and to grab it tightly so that when the gun is fired it will transmit the rotation to the ball.
Because sealing is a large part of its job, it should always be thicker than the depth of the rifling grooves.
The lube on the patch not only helps with loading but it helps prevent the hot gases from the exploding powder from burning the material.
It also lubricates the bore and rifling so it is less likely to be torn on its way out of the barrel.
Folks have used everything from spit to vegetable oil to the store bought wonder lubes and they all work, some better than others.
As a general rule, don't use a petroleum oil on your patches. The oil will mix with the fouling produced by the black powder (and other powders) to produce a hard tar like fouling that is much more difficult to remove.
Where black powder fouling is water soluble, petroleum oil fouling is not.
As for pre lubed patches often bought at a gun store they are fine If they are NEW or fairly new.
The problem here is that many of them have been sitting on the stores shelf for years and the oils/lubes that are on them will cause the material to loose its strength and tear when they are loaded or shot.
While I'm on the patch subject, when a muzzleloader is fired with a patched ball, make an effort to recover the fired patches.
They should not have rips or tares in them where the ball contacted the bore.
The center area can look almost new to dark brown or even slightly charred but it should not be burned thru.
The outside edges will always look frayed. This is normal.
DaxM, Although I always use some type of lube with my patches, my friend very frequently uses patching material impregnated with Teflon. No other lube is used with that material. However, it is several times more expensive per yd. than pillow ticking, pocket drill, or denim, but it works very well in his rifles. (I think his standard load is 80 grs. Swiss FFFg.)
Blackwater72
32 Cal.
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Thanks guys. Glad I asked, probably saved me a lot of time and disappointment.
rafterob
62 Cal.
New barrel? Looks like about 1/3 of that barrel is cutting the patches.
nchawkeye
58 Cal.
Are you using real black powder of something else...I get best results from the real thing...
What was you powder charge, what gun is it, what size ball are you shooting???
Also...Ditch the prelubed patches and buy bulk cotton in ticking or drill cloth and experiment with different lubes to see what works best...
What was you powder charge, what gun is it, what size ball are you shooting???
Also...Ditch the prelubed patches and buy bulk cotton in ticking or drill cloth and experiment with different lubes to see what works best...
jamesthomas
70 Cal.
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Go to real blackpowder and increase your patch thickness to about .018 wally word pillow ticking or #40 pocket drill from Joanns Fabrics if you have one nearby.
rafterob
62 Cal.
ooooohhhhhh patch porn :hatsoff:
paulvallandigham
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Give us specific information on your gun's make, caliber, groove depth, Ball diameter, and patch thickness, along with both the lube you use, and when its applied, and we can give you better advice.
Both reasons you suggest CAN BE the explanation for burned patches.
If you don't own it, buy Dutch Schoultz's Black Powder Rifle Accuracy System. It will teach you HOW to read your patches, and how to fix the problems you see. The current cost us just under $20.00. You won't get a better education for less money, anywhere, including here!
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/
Dutch is a member here, so just search for his name under Members, in the banner above, and send him a PT with a question, if you have one. I use his materials as reference sources all the time, and now keep it on a shelf behind my computer monitor. It is that good. :hatsoff:
Both reasons you suggest CAN BE the explanation for burned patches.
If you don't own it, buy Dutch Schoultz's Black Powder Rifle Accuracy System. It will teach you HOW to read your patches, and how to fix the problems you see. The current cost us just under $20.00. You won't get a better education for less money, anywhere, including here!
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/
Dutch is a member here, so just search for his name under Members, in the banner above, and send him a PT with a question, if you have one. I use his materials as reference sources all the time, and now keep it on a shelf behind my computer monitor. It is that good. :hatsoff:
Last edited by a moderator:
Not enough thickness and not enough lube are good starters but you should throw in:
Wrong patch material. (use 100% cotton or linen)
Type of powder. (the finer grades like 3Fg and Pyrodex P burn hotter. Triple 7 is notorious for burning patches even with mild loads.)
Too much powder. (Heavy powder charges produce much higher pressures and temperatures. The high pressures can blow past even a fairly tight patch and the higher temperatures can char the material.)
Rough barrels and new barrels. (Can tear or cut the patch while loading or firing. Once torn the flames from the powder can blow past the patch and set it on fire.)
Probably a dozen more that I can't think of at the moment but I'm sure someone will pipe in.
Wrong patch material. (use 100% cotton or linen)
Type of powder. (the finer grades like 3Fg and Pyrodex P burn hotter. Triple 7 is notorious for burning patches even with mild loads.)
Too much powder. (Heavy powder charges produce much higher pressures and temperatures. The high pressures can blow past even a fairly tight patch and the higher temperatures can char the material.)
Rough barrels and new barrels. (Can tear or cut the patch while loading or firing. Once torn the flames from the powder can blow past the patch and set it on fire.)
Probably a dozen more that I can't think of at the moment but I'm sure someone will pipe in.
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