Shooting steel ball bearings out of a Pedersoli Bess

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Here in the far left state of California, lead has been outlawed for hunting. That means that I can't carry any lead ball on me in the forest. If a game warden stops me it's very unfortunate, and apparently often involves the loss of the firearm.

They make a bismuth ball for the .62 bores but nothing bigger, apparently.

A steel 11/16" ball bearing is .6875" and my Pedersoli Bess has a diameter of .72". Is there any reason why I can't shoot these with a good patch? Actually I'm not really looking to shoot lots, just carry my Bess on my woods walks without simply carrying a useless metal and wood bar around.

How would I test fire these?

Advice welcome. Thanks in advance.

 

[Artificer]

WOW, do you know if the ball bearings are hardened and annealed or not? I would imagine they are. If so, there is NO WAY I would shoot them from a muzzle loading gun barrel that is tough, but not/never hardened and annealed.

Some CA members have mentioned using balls made from brass. If bismuth or some other softer metal is not available, I would think about using brass, but never hardened/annealed ball bearings.

Gus

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

I'd find bismouth and would mold my own ...

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Interesting idea! Can bismuth be molded like lead?

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

You've given me a great idea: I live in a very urban environment and I don't have any casting equipment. But I am guessing that if I can find a custom bullet caster they can do that: cast bismuth balls for a Brown Bess and Charleville. I understand that they will be expensive but all I will need is about 20 a year: 10 to test-fire and 10 to carry. Thanks for the concept!

 

[Britsmoothy]

With a .72 you maybe able to source a non lead rifled slug!

B.

 

[George]

WOW, do you know if the ball bearings are hardened and annealed or not? I would imagine they are. If so, there is NO WAY I would shoot them from a muzzle loading gun barrel that is tough, but not/never hardened and annealed.

Why would a patched ball be a problem for the steel of the barrel?

Spence

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Good question Spence. Especially since it's a .68 ball in a .72 barrel. Lots of patching. I have a lot to learn...thanks for the question.

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

How would one shoot a non-lead rifled slug out of a Brown Bess? Interesting concept. :thumbsup:

 

[Black Hand]

Advice welcome. Thanks in advance.

Move away from California. It was one of the best things I ever did...

 

[BrownBear]

WOW, do you know if the ball bearings are hardened and annealed or not? I would imagine they are. If so, there is NO WAY I would shoot them from a muzzle loading gun barrel that is tough, but not/never hardened and annealed.

Why would a patched ball be a problem for the steel of the barrel?

Spence

Same question. Of course the ricochets would be monumental, but I'd expect the same with brass.

Bismuth is an interesting idea. Never cast bismuth myself, but I recall lots of discussion about alloying it with a small amount of tin to prevent it from becoming brittle and fracturing on impact.

Keep us posted if you try casting large balls from bismuth.

Huh.... Never thought about it before, but how about casting your Bess balls from tin? It's low melting point (450 degrees F) would put it in the range of home casting equipment. It's low specific gravity compared to lead (7.5 compared to 11) would be an issue with small balls, but compared to the 8.5 of brass, even a half-weight Bess ball shouldn't be an issue for hunting.

Or how about pewter (also 450 degrees) if you were sure it didn't have small amounts of lead (mostly tin, with a few others). Heck even zinc might be a candidate (800 degrees), though I doubt the vapors would be anything but bad.

 

[Artificer]

WOW, do you know if the ball bearings are hardened and annealed or not? I would imagine they are. If so, there is NO WAY I would shoot them from a muzzle loading gun barrel that is tough, but not/never hardened and annealed.

Why would a patched ball be a problem for the steel of the barrel?

Spence

First, I am by no means a mechanical engineer. However, modern barrel steels are around 20 to 24 on the Rockwell Hardness scale. This doesn't mean they are hard, but rather "tough." Ball Bearings range from around double that hardness to higher, especially if they are chrome plated. That means they are hard. BTW, Ball Pein Hammers that are made to pein/peen/pound/reshape steel by hammering are also about double the hardness of gun barrel steel.

I realize people are thinking that the patch will act as a soft wrapping that will cushion the wear of the much harder ball bearing on the softer barrel steel, when fired down the soft barrel. I am not entirely sure that is correct because for example, paper under great pressure is as strong as steel. I do not know about cloth, though, but I suspect it would be similar.

However, if the patched ball bearing comes loose from the patch as the bearing goes down the bore, the ball bearing is going to dent/bulge the barrel as it bounces inside the bore. Can we be sure the very smooth ball bearing will not slip out of the cloth patch pocket when fired down the bore? Have to admit I don't know if it will and if so, what percentage of times it would slip out. But all it needs to happen is one time and you could have one or more barrel bulges.

Bottom line, there is no way I would fire something down a ML barrel that is twice as hard (or harder) as the barrel itself.

Gus

 

[George]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, Gus. Cloth hard as steel and the patch coming off while still in the bore? Really?

Spence

 

[Tinker2]

If it was going through a choke I might think about it more but unless there is an
obstruction in the bore, then I don’t think I would worry about it.
I don’t think I will shoot any but I have shot marbles.

I think the best advice was to move.


William Alexander

 

[Skychief]

I don't think it would harm the bore/barrel one bit.

Side note, thank God I'm a Hoosier. I don't know how anyone lives in that Republik out there. :surrender:

Best regards and good luck, Skychief

 

[eggwelder]

problem with ball bearings is that they bounce off hard things in an unpredictable and dangerous manner, including trees, with little loss of velocity.

 

[Artificer]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, Gus. Cloth hard as steel and the patch coming off while still in the bore? Really?

Spence

Wood pulp paper, as mentioned before under heavy pressure, is as hard as steel when it is an obstruction in a gun barrel. I am not making that up as I have heard it from more than one mechanical engineer who knew firearms and one from the H.P. White Laboratory - the most highly regarded firearms research laboratory in the country. Linen paper was and is made of cloth, which is tougher than wood pulp paper. A cloth cleaning patch left in a modern rifle can cause a bulged barrel IF it gets between the bullet and barrel. Now, there is not as much pressure in a muzzle loading barrel, so I agree it would not be as much of a concern as in a modern rifle barrel.

Ball bearings are polished to a very high degree, and that means the surface area does not have the "grip" or surface adhesion that less polished/jagged surfaces have, as for example a cast ball.

What other people choose to fire in their ML'ers is of course up to them, but I repeat; I would not shoot something out of a gun barrel that is twice as hard or harder than the barrel itself.

Gus

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well steel ball bearings, unless close to the bore, won't shoot well, and as mentioned they bounce a whole lot, even to reversing direction. :nono:

Brass would work well, but tend to come in .620 and .750 sizes, so won't work for the Bess. I don't that they bounce just like steel. When I've dropped them on the concrete floor they are FUBAR as far as being round for certain types of applications, and they don't bounce like a pinball does. OH and steel ball bearings are super hard, as Gus mentions.

You should think about Lead Free Bullet Alloy of bismuth and tin, which would mean the bullets when cast would cost about $1.50 a shot. Modern lead free pewter will cost about $2.25 a shot.

Another option is 281 Alloy which is lead free for fishing weights, and costs the same as the lead free bullet alloy, BUT because it has less bismuth and more tin, melts at a much lower temp, AND is less brittle, making it perform better on impact, though the bullets have less mass (Hey shooting it from a bess, you don't need to worry much about lack of mass)

I'd suggest either a Lyman Mold or a Lee Mold though the Lee would be more for speed shooting in volley competition, or you'll need a nice paper cup to snug the roundball up to the barrel diameter.

You could, in a pinch IF you have the molds, use silver/tin solder from the hardware store, if you went out hunting and forgot your bullets. Might really change you point of aim due to the very light ball..., the same would be true if you had to melt down a few modern-pewter buttons to make some emergency ammon...., better try it a couple a times at the range and then keep that info "in your back pocket" in case of emergency. :wink:


ZINC is right-out as it melts at a high temp and off-gasses zinc fumes which can make you sick.:barf: PLUS it's very hard making it a real bi-atch to cut off the sprue. I'd just leave that alone.

LD

 

[coloradoclyde]

problem with ball bearings is that they bounce off hard things in an unpredictable and dangerous manner, including trees, with little loss of velocity.

Yes they do.... :thumbsup:
And the bigger the ball the more prone it is...

 

[Einsiedler]

I don't have a clue to its authenticity, but I seem to remember in the writings of Uncle **** Wootton that he mentioned the natives of nothern New Mexico using copper fusil balls obtained from trade the local "Spaniards".

I also seem to remember him stating that over the years, he had removed several of these copper projectiles from wounded compatriots.