Shooting the Kibler 50 at Water Jugs (Pic of not so round ball)

[Hawken1980]

This afternoon a buddy came over to test some hand loads on water jugs. He had a few left over so I shot my Kibler Flintlock intro some jugs full of water to see round ball terminal effect.

90 grains fffg- I was considering this load for wild hogs
10 yards from jugs
The round ball disintegrated the first jug and blew through the second jug and was laying in the bottom of the third jug.

it was completely flattened.
i think I will be backing the load down for hunting to 70 grains. I think I pushed it to hard.
it was a fun experiment though.

 

[hanshi]

I've done that a few times and it never ceases to amaze me how much expansion a liquid can cause.

 

[PathfinderNC]

That is a great idea!

 

[Hawken1980]

Friend just weights the mashed round ball.

results

 

[zerosprk]

If 70gr. of 3f is more accurate out of your gun than the 90gr. load, I understand making the change. If on the other hand, the 90gr. load shoots at least as well as the 70gr. load, why change given your stated intent is to hunt hogs? I'm asking out of ignorance. I've hunted a lot, but never for hogs - at least not yet. Everything I've read leads me to believe they have a will to live (especially the larger ones) that is on par with an elk - which can be substantial in my experience...

 

[Hawken1980]

If 70gr. of 3f is more accurate out of your gun than the 90gr. load, I understand making the change. If on the other hand, the 90gr. load shoots at least as well as the 70gr. load, why change given your stated intent is to hunt hogs? I'm asking out of ignorance. I've hunted a lot, but never for hogs - at least not yet. Everything I've read leads me to believe they have a will to live (especially the larger ones) that is on par with an elk - which can be substantial in my experience...

Here is my theory about slowing the ball down. It expanded at 90 grains very quickly, rapid expansion lessons penetration. Hogs are not rinos, but they are tough.

ive hunted them for years, however God willing I’m going to hunt them this year with a flintlock for the first time.

If I slow the ball down I think will expand slower and penetrate more.

 

[oldhunter1954]

Very interesting thoughts on penetration. Please keep us updated on your hunts. I would love to try my flintlock on a hog. Just not confident with not being able to take a second shot quickly if needed.

 

[forty_caliber]

This brings up another question. From looking at the amount of expansion, I'm guessing that it was a PURE lead ball. I realize I'm opening up a can of worms, but if the ball were cast from hardball alloy (about twice as hard as pure) they would be slightly lighter thus travel faster, and expand less. Presumably you could keep your 90gr charge and get better terminal performance.

.40

 

[2 shots]

if you cast tour own, maybe a little harder lead to slow expansion a the 90 gr. level ? oops sorry for the overlap idea

 

[zerosprk]

@oldhunter1954's comment above was exactly what I was thinking. I'm very interested in what you find related to critter penetration at a lower velocity. I know the concept works to some extent in the unmentionable world. At the end of the day, if it works - it works and I'll be the last one to argue with that.

 

[Hawken1980]

Very interesting thoughts on penetration. Please keep us updated on your hunts. I would love to try my flintlock on a hog. Just not confident with not being able to take a second shot quickly if needed.

Great discussion on follow up shots. Generally with hogs (and deer)
They either drop or run.
If they drop and the need a second shot.
1. Side Arm. A fifty call Kentucky pistol uses the same ball, patch and powder as the flintlock. So I can use that.

2. your trade knife or Bowie can also be used. Carefully slip it in his armpit and it will go through the heart and will be a quick kill (Personally I’m getting a little soft hearted and hate having to do this, so keep shot placement good and you will have no need to finish him.

I think hunting hog in Florida has its own historical vibe. Hogs were let free here five hundred years ago and have been hunted with muzzleloaders since then.

Really hogs are not that tough. Yes there are stories of them soaking up crazy amounts of lead and attacking, normally you shoot them and they fall over.

 

[Hawken1980]

This brings up another question. From looking at the amount of expansion, I'm guessing that it was a PURE lead ball. I realize I'm opening up a can of worms, but if the ball were cast from hardball alloy (about twice as hard as pure) they would be slightly lighter thus travel faster, and expand less. Presumably you could keep your 90gr charge and get better terminal performance.

.40

So the ball in that picture is stick on wheel weight lead.

it is just slight Harder than pure lead.
for that reason I do not cast balls for my 1851 Colt with it.

 

[FiremanBrad]

I would suggest the water jug test for the 70gr load. I’d be curious what you find there.

 

[Hawken1980]

I would suggest the water jug test for the 70gr load. I’d be curious what you find there.

I plan on it and will update. Hopefully next weekend

 

[longcruise]

ten yards is pretty close. Velocity is going o fall off pretty fast. Also, water has a very high initial resistance. Probably more than a hog.

There's a lot going on with rb ballistics.

 

[Hawken1980]

ten yards is pretty close. Velocity is going o fall off pretty fast. Also, water has a very high initial resistance. Probably more than a hog.

There's a lot going on with rb ballistics.

Agreed, round balls ares complicated.
The test was really close, however my average shot is 25 yards. Really dense woods. The longest shot in the last five years was a 130 yard shot on a hog crossing a four wheeler trail. Noting I would want to take with a flintlock personally.

 

[hanshi]

I use 70 grains of 3F in my .50 for 1700 fps which is my accuracy load and hunting load in this rifle. The faster a ball moves, the faster it slows down. So at 100 yards there's little velocity difference between 90 grn velocity and the 70 grn. While I've been there, I no longer try to "magnumize" a rifle and simply go for the most accurate load for the max distance I'll shoot - and this is not over 100 yds and likely no longer even that far.

 

[Zonie]

Here's a graph that shows how a roundball slows down when it's fired at different muzzle velocities. The dots on the left are muzzle velocities. Every dot to the right of them represent the velocity 20 yards further down range with the final dot on the right being a distance of 120 yards from the muzzle.

 

[Hawken1980]

Here's a graph that shows how a roundball slows down when it's fired at different muzzle velocities. The dots on the left are muzzle velocities. Every dot to the right of them represent the velocity 20 yards further down range with the final dot on the right being a distance of 120 yards from the muzzle.

View attachment 68989

That is a great chart! Thanks

 

[Sparkitoff]

If you're going to try to simulate what will happen on a hog, make it like your shot. Shoot at 25 yards and put some leather or clay or something to simulate hair/skin/fat/muscle. I don't have a 50 caliber that I am shooting ball out of, but I shoot a lot of hogs with a 54 using ball. My load is 80 grains FFFg and my MV is 1674FPS. The balls are pure lead. That works really well. Using the same load with a 50, I would suspect it's just a smaller hole but the lighter weight may reduce some penetration.