Short arbor discussion

[M. De Land]

It's been interesting to here Mike Beliveau's (Duelist Den videos ) take on short arbor accuracy fix necessity. My finding precisely ! An experienced percussion shooter that knows what he's talking about in my opinion.
If it improves accuracy neither of us can detect it.

 

[45D]

It's been interesting to here Mike Beliveau's (Duelist Den videos ) take on short arbor accuracy fix necessity. My finding precisely ! An experienced percussion shooter that knows what he's talking about in my opinion.
If it improves accuracy neither of us can detect it.

You should "un-fix" your Walker then. It's amazing how many folks these days know "better" than Colt and his designers about the open-top platform . . . from looking at replicas!!!

Mike

 

[Ed C.]

It's been interesting to here Mike Beliveau's (Duelist Den videos ) take on short arbor accuracy fix necessity. My finding precisely ! An experienced percussion shooter that knows what he's talking about in my opinion.
If it improves accuracy neither of us can detect it.

Depends on how consistent you are in setting the wedge. With the short arbor fix you remove that variable from the equation. While Beliveau puts up very informative and often useful info I question some of his fixes.

 

[45D]

With the short arbor fix you remove that variable from the equation.

EXACTLY!!!

Not to mention, wedges that are not under tension can and will move . . . even shot to shot.

Depends on how consistent you are in setting the wedge.

Which will change as time goes on depending on the loads used, the wear to the wedge slot in the arbor, the wear to the wedge slot in the barrel, the wear to the wedge itself, the looseness of the arbor itself as it is hammered on with each shot fired with a loose wedge.

While Beliveau puts up very informative and often useful info I question some of his fixes.

Yes, the proof is in actual "doing" and at the firing line. Wonder how many revolvers he has set up have won State Championships for cowboy shooters? Revolvers that can't "cap jam", that can run "faster than you" and can do it again . . . tomorrow . . . Why wouldn't you set up EVERY revolver to have that ability? You should and there's plenty info out there for you to do it!! ( btw, you don't need a mill or a lathe to do it )

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

Depends on how consistent you are in setting the wedge. With the short arbor fix you remove that variable from the equation. While Beliveau puts up very informative and often useful info I question some of his fixes.

The thing I like about Beliveau is he never insists his way is the only way but still sticks to his own ideas until they can definitively be proven incorrect ! I don't agree with all of his thinking either but most of what he says about them is correct and he does actually shoot them loaded with black powder.

 

[M. De Land]

You should "un-fix" your Walker then. It's amazing how many folks these days know "better" than Colt and his designers about the open-top platform . . . from looking at replicas!!!

Mike

I've always said it's a good fix to any open frame gun but not necessary to good accuracy. With the Walker I'm beginning to think it potentially necessary for longevity if one uses a factory wedge and no adjustment screw to take up wedge distortion.
Beliveau and I both think the arbor end fit down the list of important factors concerning good accuracy though.

 

[M. De Land]

EXACTLY!!!

Not to mention, wedges that are not under tension can and will move . . . even shot to shot.


Which will change as time goes on depending on the loads used, the wear to the wedge slot in the arbor, the wear to the wedge slot in the barrel, the wear to the wedge itself, the looseness of the arbor itself as it is hammered on with each shot fired with a loose wedge.



Yes, the proof is in actual "doing" and at the firing line. Wonder how many revolvers he has set up have won State Championships for cowboy shooters? Revolvers that can't "cap jam", that can run "faster than you" and can do it again . . . tomorrow . . . Why wouldn't you set up EVERY revolver to have that ability? You should and there's plenty info out there for you to do it!! ( btw, you don't need a mill or a lathe to do it )

Mike

That is absolutely true about not needing a lathe or mill for tuning but it sure is a bonus for time , accuracy and effort . Now for fabrication of parts they pretty much are a necessity along with a good heat treat oven. Some operations are practically impossible with a file and drill bit particularly with modern alloy use.
A good example is lowering a lower lug on an open frame gun barrel and keeping it square to the bore. I've done it by hand and in my lathe and the lathe is by far easier and very accurate as opposed to spotting fluid and file strokes.

 

[M. De Land]

Well if your a new shooter and don't have the money for a tuning and the gun works fine out of the box which most of them do.

EXACTLY!!!

Not to mention, wedges that are not under tension can and will move . . . even shot to shot.


Which will change as time goes on depending on the loads used, the wear to the wedge slot in the arbor, the wear to the wedge slot in the barrel, the wear to the wedge itself, the looseness of the arbor itself as it is hammered on with each shot fired with a loose wedge.



Yes, the proof is in actual "doing" and at the firing line. Wonder how many revolvers he has set up have won State Championships for cowboy shooters? Revolvers that can't "cap jam", that can run "faster than you" and can do it again . . . tomorrow . . . Why wouldn't you set up EVERY revolver to have that ability? You should and there's plenty info out there for you to do it!! ( btw, you don't need a mill or a lathe to do it )

Mike

ur

 

[45D]

Well if your a new shooter and don't have the money for a tuning and the gun works fine out of the box which most of them do.

ur

Well, that's exactly the way we did it when WE all started!! We bought wedges because we beat them to death, the cylinders "over rotated" because they did, springs broke because they do, cap jams sucked because they still do . . . We didn't have an internet with forums that have a world of information available to us. The "gunsmith" in town didn't really know WHAT to do other than order and/ or change parts (SA's are not intuitive to work on . . . )

So, today's "new shooter" has a wealth of knowledge at their fingertips!!! Multiple forums to learn from with HOW TOOS . . . . for FREE!!!! They can listen to whoever they want to and see if it really works. As I've said, the firing line will tell the tale . . .

You can do what you can and what you can't, you can send it to whoever . . .

I'd rather make folks happier with what they have and get more rather than they get discouraged and quit altogether!!

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

Well, that's exactly the way we did it when WE all started!! We bought wedges because we beat them to death, the cylinders "over rotated" because they did, springs broke because they do, cap jams sucked because they still do . . . We didn't have an internet with forums that have a world of information available to us. The "gunsmith" in town didn't really know WHAT to do other than order and/ or change parts (SA's are not intuitive to work on . . . )

So, today's "new shooter" has a wealth of knowledge at their fingertips!!! Multiple forums to learn from with HOW TOOS . . . . for FREE!!!! They can listen to whoever they want to and see if it really works. As I've said, the firing line will tell the tale . . .

You can do what you can and what you can't, you can send it to whoever . . .

I'd rather make folks happier with what they have and get more rather than they get discouraged and quit altogether!!

Mike

Well Mike I'm glad your services are available and love the discussion and exchange of ideas along with a good argument testing our ideas and thinking ! None of us knows it all or are in total agreement with each other but that is both healthy and it keeps things interesting! There is tons of hard earned knowledge and experience on this forum in shooting and working on these critters and I'm never board hearing all the various ideas , means and methods!