Short Barrel Rifles verses Long Barrel Rifles test. Details Below...

[TFoley]

The most accurate muzzle loaders ever made had barrels under 30"....

Why is it,then, that our match rifles tend to have barrels in the region of 33 inches length?

 

[Pete G]

The most accurate muzzle loaders ever made had barrels under 30"....

Along with 100s of other things!

 

[Uncle Miltie]

Why is it,then, that our match rifles tend to have barrels in the region of 33 inches length?

I don't know.
But I can tell you the best of the big heavy bench rifles as built by Warner, Reinhard, Perry, Brockway and others in the last half of the 19th century had barrels at or under 30" in length.

 

[pwbsmokey]

I don't know.
But I can tell you the best of the big heavy bench rifles as built by Warner, Reinhard, Perry, Brockway and others in the last half of the 19th century had barrels at or under 30" in length.

Possibly due to weight?

 

[tenngun]

I really have fun watching your vids Mark
Like always this is a good one
I like long barrels, but the few FPS you pick up with the extra inches just won’t make any differnce down range for round ball

 

[TFoley]

I don't know.
But I can tell you the best of the big heavy bench rifles as built by Warner, Reinhard, Perry, Brockway and others in the last half of the 19th century had barrels at or under 30" in length.

Sadly, there seems to be a distinct lack of interest in bench-rest muzzleloading shooting anywhere except the US of A. Hence my comment. The MLAGB, AFAIK, requires match rifles to conform to certain well-established standards of design in the traditional style. Bench-rest shooting of 50# muzzleloaders is not one of them, at least here. The MLAIC might be different - perhaps a member of that organisation might comment?

 

[rich pierce]

It’s well established that longer barrels give small increases in velocity. This was a fun backyard test but not scientific - I think a shot passing practically through the same hole will penetrate further, as one example. Boards weaken when shot several times and are prone to splitting. Wood is not a uniform material. But the videos are always fun and make me wish I was there!

 

[Stevan]

Whiskey ages better in shorter barrels plus you don't need a glass.

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

Ever wonder if short rifles can outperform ones with longer barrels?
Details below:

Thanks Maniac Shooter, always enjoy your videos!

 

[Uncle Miltie]

Sadly, there seems to be a distinct lack of interest in bench-rest muzzleloading shooting anywhere except the US of A. Hence my comment. The MLAGB, AFAIK, requires match rifles to conform to certain well-established standards of design in the traditional style. Bench-rest shooting of 50# muzzleloaders is not one of them, at least here. The MLAIC might be different - perhaps a member of that organisation might comment?

Match shooting in the UK was based on military shooting, hence the light rifles, single triggers, prone position etc.
In the US heavier rifles with telescopic sights, set triggers, heavy patched bullets and so forth produced unheard of accuracy that at that time could not be bested by anyone else in the world.
It is important to note the high water mark of rifle accuracy was reached by these rifles.

 

[TFoley]

Match shooting in the UK was based on military shooting, hence the light rifles, single triggers, prone position etc.
In the US heavier rifles with telescopic sights, set triggers, heavy patched bullets and so forth produced unheard of accuracy that at that time could not be bested by anyone else in the world.
It is important to note the high water mark of rifle accuracy was reached by these rifles.

This is a bit like the so-called World series - your ultra-heavy match rifles with composite bullets, loading devices, and barrel weighing as much as three-year-old child don't seem to be popular anywhere else in the world of BP muzzleloading.

I have no doubt that a rifle that is held up by a pair of wobbly arms, rather than cuddled onto a solid rest hefty enough to support its 50# weight, and shot at short ranges, off a solid bench - compared to our 1200 yards, often shot in the rain - is going to be less accurate than your behemoths.

We are using either open sights much like those found on a Daisy, or tang sights at best, and not telescopic sights of any kind.

Although we are both shooting BP, from a muzzleloader, your style of shooting is a world apart from ours.

Long may we continue to enjoy the kind of shooting we choose.

 

[TFoley]

I don't know.
But I can tell you the best of the big heavy bench rifles as built by Warner, Reinhard, Perry, Brockway and others in the last half of the 19th century had barrels at or under 30" in length.

...and between two and three inches in diameter.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

This is a bit like the so-called World series - your ultra-heavy match rifles with composite bullets, loading devices, and barrel weighing as much as three-year-old child don't seem to be popular anywhere else in the world of BP muzzleloading.

I have no doubt that a rifle that is held up by a pair of wobbly arms, rather than cuddled onto a solid rest hefty enough to support its 50# weight, and shot at short ranges, off a solid bench - compared to our 1200 yards, often shot in the rain - is going to be less accurate than your behemoths.

We are using either open sights much like those found on a Daisy, or tang sights at best, and not telescopic sights of any kind.

Although we are both shooting BP, from a muzzleloader, your style of shooting is a world apart from ours.

Long may we continue to enjoy the kind of shooting we choose.

Two different types of shooting. But the Improved American match rifles produced accuracy that could not be matched. Shooters competed for group size as modern benchrest shooters do today.
European shooters limited their quest for best accuracy by sticking to lightweight match rifles shot prone. While that was the nature of their game it caused them to fall short of advancing the accuracy of their shooting.
This rifle was built in 1885. I enjoy shooting it and have done so out to 600 yards. I do believe I might have enough accommodation in the front scope mount to shoot 1,000 yards and will try this as soon as I am able to.
You can click on the photo watch. Lots of flame at the muzzle, lots of smoke coming from the nipple as well.

 

[Oldbear63]

Ever wonder if short rifles can outperform ones with longer barrels?
Details below:

Science!

 

[TFoley]

Two different types of shooting. But the Improved American match rifles produced accuracy that could not be matched. Shooters competed for group size as modern benchrest shooters do today.
European shooters limited their quest for best accuracy by sticking to lightweight match rifles shot prone. While that was the nature of their game it caused them to fall short of advancing the accuracy of their shooting.
This rifle was built in 1885. I enjoy shooting it and have done so out to 600 yards. I do believe I might have enough accommodation in the front scope mount to shoot 1,000 yards and will try this as soon as I am able to.
You can click on the photo watch. Lots of flame at the muzzle, lots of smoke coming from the nipple as well.

That was because the primary 'aim' of European, mostly British, shooters was to improve MILITARY marksmanship, not a leisure pursuit.

The British marksmen were either serving military, members of a Volunteer organisation, or former military personnel of all ranks.

With the emphasis on military marksmanship prevalent in Europe and the then-British Empire, you can hardly expect a soldier to carry around all the paraphernalia associated with your ultra-specialised type of target shooting.

I seem to recall from somewhere or other that our 'lightweight' British rifles were not only THE most desired by both sides of your recent civil war, but one type, in particular, was genuinely dreaded by the Northerners, who had no answer to it except artillery or massed fire.

One of the most remarkable modern American BP M/L shooters, who posts here, regularly shoots incredible ranges with what appears to be nothing more than a very-well-made but otherwise ordinary rifle. I'll not mention his name for fear of causing either upset or embarrassment, but you'll surely know who I mean. His ability to hit a small target at over a thousand yard under the open sky, rather than on a range under controlled conditions, is what, in my mind, constitutes the epitome of BP M/L shooting.

Each to his own.

 

[ResearchPress]

Two different types of shooting. But the Improved American match rifles produced accuracy that could not be matched. Shooters competed for group size as modern benchrest shooters do today.
European shooters limited their quest for best accuracy by sticking to lightweight match rifles shot prone. While that was the nature of their game it caused them to fall short of advancing the accuracy of their shooting.
This rifle was built in 1885. . . .

Agreed re. two different types of shooting - and pointless to compare the precision of the two different rifle forms. Each was world leading in its class.

Match rifle shooting in the UK was however about advancing accuracy, and contemporary reports refer to the sport as 'scientific rifle shooting'. The NRA(UK) held a couple of rifle matches in the 1860s at 2,000 yards, with 15lb rifles. They also introduced a class for 'Military Breech Loaders' (MBL) which was intended to encourage development in that field. The advances were aligned with practical application. By 1885, British competitive rifle shooting had moved on to breech loaders.

And to get things back on track with the original post - this brief article of 1877 may interest: Long range trials with a short barreled Remington rifle. [WARNING - it refers to breech loaders].

David

 

[Sun City]

Long sight radius Long sight radius!!

 

[Relic shooter]

SHORT ANSWER FOR LONG OR SHORT BARREL;

Rifles with heavy longer barrels provide 'target shooters' with a longer sight radius & as others state slightly higher velocity but length & weight can be problematic to pack hunting.

Performance opinions' below are not mine, they are based on Master European Gunmakers of the flint & Percussion eras.

For several decades I was an antique firearms collector, competitor & big game hunter with high expectations for accuracy from a light weight big bore rifle & found that original or custom light weight English styled half stocked sporting rifles or Jaegers best suited my needs.

PATCHED ROUND BALL ACCURACY TIPS FROM PERIOD GUN MAKERS;
Having shot mostly original firearms over the past 60 years, barrels on the rifles & pistols that performed best for me had swamped barrels with faster twist & deeper rifling.
PRB twist in the above type firearms typically average one turn in length of the barrel & have deeper rifling in the '012-.016 range.
These type barrels load easily & produce superb accuracy, with minimal fouling with propper PRB & charge combo.
The above barrels also produce top notch PRB accuracy with with lower powder charges.

NOTE; About 40 years ago I was privileged to shoot an original percussion big bore half stock Hawken rifle.
The rifle's muzzle was either worn or coned but the rifling below appeared to be about .014 deep & featured one turn in about 48".

Most commercially produced muzzleloading rifles & pistols have shallower & much slower twist rifling to prevent skidding, torn patches & loss of accuracy. These type barrels can produce excellent accuracy but require a properly fitted PRB & load combination.

Fortunately some custom barrel makers are still producing swamped barrels with deeper fast twist or progressive rifling for hard core competitive shooters & hunters !
Again, the above is data is not mine, just specs I obtained from collecting & shooting a large number of original firearms over 6 plus decades.
Relic shooter