Short "sea service" musket

[BCarp]

Don't know how correct this gun is, but it's an interesting piece, and would be a good "woods gun" with its 38" bbl:
[url] http://www.loyalistarms.freeservers.com/britishseaservicemusket1778model.html[/url]

And please refrain from the inevitable anti-Indian gun comments! We all know they're not the finest product on the market. However, I know numerous guys that own various models, and they all seem very reliable in terms of function....

 

[Russianblood]

Here is another one that would be a great "woods gun":[url] http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/MSC.shtml[/url]
This 3rd model brown bess has a 26" barrel and is 75 caliber.

 

[Wes/Tex]

The gun follows the lines pretty good for a replica. My gripe is the somewhat bulky dimensions on these gun but that's why God made files and sandpaper! Does look like a good woods gun and Loyalist Armes goes over their stuff better than some others.

 

[whitetrash078]

I like it, looks like a nice musket. What does it have for a sight since it is not set up to take a bayonet? :hmm:

 

[faw3]

Got a guy that comes by to shoot with me now and then, he has a MSV and it always fires, 30 to 40 shots and not one miss fire ( I dont/ havent shot flintlock so i dont know if thats a big deal as is whith the smooth bore he hits real close to what he aims at) saying that except for price the others look much better, Im wondering if thats just a show rifle or does someone have a rifle from them and they do look that good? Cant go wrong for the price then. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[Mike Brooks]

My favorite woods gun had a 48" barrel. I've carried 60" barreled guns in the woods with out a hitch too.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Here is another one that would be a great "woods gun":[url] http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/MSC.shtml[/url]
This 3rd model brown bess has a 26" barrel and is 75 caliber.

It is a cute little gun but what is the purpose of such a short barrel? The longer barrel allows full use of a normal powder charge and will have better handling qualities than the short barrel with its short sight radius. Just something odd about a short barrel on a musket, I've never seen an original gun like it, not even one cut back after military use. To each his own?

 

[Russianblood]

Im wondering if thats just a show rifle or does someone have a rifle from them and they do look that good?

Here is a picture of my brass barrelled blunderbuss from Middlesex Village.

All I did was add the sling swivels and buff the stock with 0000 steel wool and tung oil.

 

[faw3]

At least that red "high lite " is gone :rotf: why they put those pics up :shake: MS's.. the price and the way the they always seem to work would sell me. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[faw3]

Mike if you lived in the "piney woods of East Texas you'd leave, it's hard to carry a blunderbus in all this undergrowth and vines and thorns ( really if you try to make time your going about 2 foot a min thats with out gun and something to chop with) Fred :hatsoff:

 

[Mike Brooks]

Can you even get a shot of more than 5' in undergrowth that thick? I'm guessing in that situation a gun of any length, no mater how short, wouldn't be usefull. :hmm:

 

[BCarp]

Here is another one that would be a great "woods gun":[url] http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/MSC.shtml[/url]
This 3rd model brown bess has a 26" barrel and is 75 caliber.

It is a cute little gun but what is the purpose of such a short barrel? The longer barrel allows full use of a normal powder charge and will have better handling qualities than the short barrel with its short sight radius. Just something odd about a short barrel on a musket, I've never seen an original gun like it, not even one cut back after military use. To each his own?

The main reason for long musket bbl's was not effective burning of powder charges, nor for sighting considerations, but so that they could function as pikes with bayonets affixed. Military guns termed "carbines" had the same bore size, but shorter bbl's, in the 37" - 39" range, and were used by dragoons, artillery, etc. During the F&I War, Highland troops, rangers, and light companies did indeed shorten the bbl's on their Long Land pattern "Bess" muskets. As well, "Sea Service" muskets did, in fact, have shorter bbl's than the standard infantry model (though perhaps not this short).
Anyways, how much loss of effectiveness is going to be found in a 38" bbl as compared to 46" or 42"? Not much, I bet. Napoleonic-era "Besses" had only 39" bbl's, and apparently served their intended purpose at Waterloo and similar fields...!

 

[faw3]

Mike I havent been hunting since I got in the wheelchair 12 yrs ago , only been out less than a year , but I carry my short UH because of a BIG hog problem we have here ( we use nothing smaller than 62/20s at least it spins them around. :rotf: (and my kid belives in the COLD STEEL 7' spear how he gets that thru that mess :shake: at 16 ya can do lots of things ya cant at 56. But I carry a 58 Dragoon with minie too. But this isnt for hunting or anything but gofing off and staying alive, for shooting my 48" H+A was the best Ive ever had. :grin: Fred :hatsoff:

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Here is another one that would be a great "woods gun":[url] http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/MSC.shtml[/url]
This 3rd model brown bess has a 26" barrel and is 75 caliber.

It is a cute little gun but what is the purpose of such a short barrel? The longer barrel allows full use of a normal powder charge and will have better handling qualities than the short barrel with its short sight radius. Just something odd about a short barrel on a musket, I've never seen an original gun like it, not even one cut back after military use. To each his own?

The main reason for long musket bbl's was not effective burning of powder charges, nor for sighting considerations, but so that they could function as pikes with bayonets affixed. Military guns termed "carbines" had the same bore size, but shorter bbl's, in the 37" - 39" range, and were used by dragoons, artillery, etc. During the F&I War, Highland troops, rangers, and light companies did indeed shorten the bbl's on their Long Land pattern "Bess" muskets. As well, "Sea Service" muskets did, in fact, have shorter bbl's than the standard infantry model (though perhaps not this short).
Anyways, how much loss of effectiveness is going to be found in a 38" bbl as compared to 46" or 42"? Not much, I bet. Napoleonic-era "Besses" had only 39" bbl's, and apparently served their intended purpose at Waterloo and similar fields...!

:shocked2: You are preaching to the choir but read my post, especially the quote, a little more carefully. I've been collecting and shooting military muskets for almost 35 years and know the ins and outs of the use of the bayonet and the necessary length of a musket to be effective in the 18th and 19th Centuries. You need to check the link, it takes you to a 26 inch barrel "ships carbine" that never existed in military service - the shortest Sea Sevice muskets that I am aware of had 30" barrels. Russianblood in his reply to the original post in this thread was speaking about the one he linked as "a great "woods gun" ". While he may be right for his purposes, I do not particularly care for the extremely short barrel, it won't burn an effective standard charge thoroughly and will not handle as well as the longer barrel gun. (No disrespect to Russianblood intended, he is knowledgeable and a very helpful forum participant who gives freely of his time and experiences.)

 

[Mike Brooks]

, it takes you to a 26 inch barrel "ships carbine" that never existed in military service

Things that never existed seem to be quite popular for alot of folks. Which is fine, as long as you don't care about having a historically correct gun.
Reaserch is the key to making informed choices..

 

[faw3]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Fred :hatsoff:

 

[roklock]

My favorite woods gun had a 48" barrel.

My current favorite is a 44" and it is too short, I have a 48" on my bench for my next project. I hunt in very thick mountain laurel (state flower) and don't have issues about the length.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Short barrels are pretty much a modern mind set. Colonial americans prefered long barrels.
The greater majority of 18th century english made trade guns were made with 48" barrels.

 

[chuckpa]

On page 100 of British Military Firearms 1650-1850 by Howard L Blackmore there is a picture of a sea service musket with a 26" bbl.
On page 98 there are also pictures of carbunes with 28' and 26' bbls.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

On page 100 of British Military Firearms 1650-1850 by Howard L Blackmore there is a picture of a sea service musket with a 26" bbl.
On page 98 there are also pictures of carbunes with 28' and 26' bbls.

Very good reference. Unfortunately I loaned my Blackmore to a fellow about 10 years ago and have not seen it since. However, you must keep in mind that the 26" Sea Service musket you mention was not regulation and that the reproduction specifically discussed here is nominally a Short Land Pattern musket - but it has a barrel 16" shorter than the original and no Land Pattern muskets were made with a barrel shorter than 39", that being the India Pattern adopted after the American Revolution. The carbines you mention are just that, carbines for use by cavalry, different pattern entirely in lock, stock, barrel and hardware and different caliber - the reproduction is nothing like the issue carbines. The reproduction with the 26" barrel is really nothing but what reenactors like to call a "canoe gun", something that is historically iffy at best. However, I am sure it is a fun little gun and there is certainly nothing wrong with owning one if that it meets the wants and desires that the shooter has, but it can not be considered historically accurate.