shot collars

[wirewiz]

has anyone used shot collars from trap range if so what wad sequence and charge do you use

 

[Dave K]

Shot collar? Is that what we call shot wads?

 

[wirewiz]

the cup that holds the shot they are all over the ground at a trap range

 

[coloradoclyde]

I have in the past.powder, shotcup flush with the muzzle, fill with shot and ram home. Top with an os card or toilet paper. They can be a drag to load if fouling gets to bad. I don"t use them anymore. Except in my .410 double but I don't shoot that any more either.

 

[bpd303]

They are plastic and never fit the bore of any of my smoothbores. I use an over powder card or two, then a fiber wad, shot and an overshot card for best results.

 

[BrownBear]

When I use them I do a little surgery first, before they ever leave home.

Cut away all that cushion folderol beneath the cup. You don't need it and it makes it that much harder to seal the bore.

For loading, it's powder, then a "Type A" hard card just below the muzzle, then a well-lubed fiber wad just below the muzzle, then the plastic wad so the petals are just below the muzzle (finger deep), then your measure of shot. Top with your overshot card and push it all down the bore to seat it with one pass of the rod. No multiple rod thrusts for me. Lots easier in the field.

The hard card does a good job of scraping the bore and the lubed fiber wad helps keep fouling soft on your next load.

With the lubed fiber wad in there, I've experienced zero plastic fouling. Just not going to happen with a lubed bore and both the hard card and fiber card between the base and the burning powder.

Also, the spreading petals as the plastic wad exits the muzzle retards the plastic wad along with the others, so there's zero tendency for the wads to blow out through your pattern.

Saying all that, I still prefer to shoot without the plastic wads for simplicity. Only time I use the plastics, it's the WAAR wad, which is a little heavier and tends to improve patterns a bit from a cylinder bore. But mostly I don't need the little extra range I get from a little tighter pattern using the WAARs.

 

[wirewiz]

I knew this was the place to ask I did not think of the residue I want to shoot doves here in az. they come so fast and high that I was trying to get a little extra distance will try the first couple of loads and then go normal thank you

 

[Wes/Tex]

I'd say you could benefit from a hour's reading our ole pal Spence's page. His thoughts should be mandatory reading for all muzzleloaders (yes, my opinion). I'd come to most of his conclusions on my own by shooting like crazy and tossing out what doesn't work. His baby, like mine, is a .62 but there's little they can't do. His writing style is first rate, his stories are top notch and you'll learn a lot! "Try it, you'll like it!" :wink: :haha:

http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/

 

[ohio ramrod]

Years ago I used them after cutting off the base and "cushion". Now I use a shot cartridge made from three thickness of news paper rolled over a dowel rod , tied of with kite string, filled with shot, twisted and folded over and tied shut. I load powder, two 1/4 leather wads, then the shot cartridge folded end out. I do not use an over shot card as the folded end of the shot cartridge serves as one. :idunno:

 

[Grandpa Ron]

I have used the shot collar portion of a 20 ga. wad after cutting off the wad portion.

I loaded the normal powder/card wad/ cushion wad load, with the shot in the cup portion and an over shot wad. It tightens the group a bit in my trade gun. I did not think it was worth the effort but your results may vary.

I found some 1960 vintage Herter’s shot cups for my 12 ga. double but the plastic could not stand the heat of the black powder and left a lot of plastic residue in my barrels.

For the most part smoothies are what they are, but they are a lot of fun to experiment with.

 

[wirewiz]

to granpa that is how I figured it I want to shoot some doves with the youngsters that our club teaches to shoot clay targets I want to hit a few and maybe get a kid or two to get interested in m/loading

 

[Lorne Johnson]

I use shot collars quite a lot, both with and without other wads under them. As a general rule it involves finding a combination that works with your gun. Brown Bear's approach is a good one.

Shooting skeet with regular skeet shooters I often shoot a gun that works well with just the plastic wad--mostly because it is quick to load and so I can shoot two shots at each station and not slow down the squad (much). After 2 or 3 rounds there is a lot of plastic, but once I start flushing the barrels with warm water it comes loose very quickly with a stroke or 2 of a nylon brush. With a little practice, it can then be flushed out quite easily. Works for me, but some folks don't like it at all.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I have used yes. Don't bother any more. To much fiddle. More to carry!

B.

 

[George]

Many years ago I found an interesting gadget at a going-out-of-business sale at a gun shop. It is a simple stamped flat piece of plastic designed to go inside shot shells, sold by Alcan. The central, round part fits into the shell, and the two wings fold up as you push it down, forming a collar or tube. They were called shot protectors. The ones I got are for 12 gauge, and I found that they fit and worked OK inside my 12 gauge percussion double with cylinder bores. I used them some for dove hunting, and I thought they were a help on those high ones, but never really did any pattern testing to make sure. I got a 20 gauge smoothbore about that time, went off the primitive deep end and lost interest in them. :grin:





Spence

 

[ZUG]

What you find now days on the skeet and trap range are wads not shot collars. When the Winchester Mark 5 trap shell came out in the late 50's they had a strip of plastic that went around the shot column to keep the shot from deforming as it went down the barrel. Alcan sold those plastic strips then a few years later they went with "the new design" shown - then came the plastic wad as we know them today. I still have Alcan cushion wads and their over powder wads squirreled away some where. Alcan also sold 209 primer parts that you assembled whole primers with - remember those!

 

[wirewiz]

I remember them well that's why I missed naming them instead of plastic wads loaded many thousands of herters wads in regular trap loads over the years use only full plastic now

 

[Lorne Johnson]

I have used yes. Don't bother any more. To much fiddle. More to carry!

B.

Yes, of course. My hunting carries are quite different from my target carries. "Keep it simple!"

 

[Dave K]

Everyone can have a different experience. I tried all kinds of wads, homemade paper shot packages or what ever. They just didn't work for me, but they may for you. I went back to the KISS system that worked for a couple 100 yrs. Use an over powder card then for dove and clay shooting it is a 1/4" thick fiber cushion,soaked and then allowed to drain of virgin olive oil.All topped with an over shot card.at one time I spent allot of time on the patterning board. I pattern of loading became apparent and this works simple and very well for me. For the tightest pattern where only one shot is realized like turkey hunting, I leave out the lubed cushion. Another benefit of this, no plastic trash to pickup. It is all biodrageable, if you can even find any of it.

 

[Leatherbark]

Shot collars made out of post it notes or brown paper bags are only good for a convenient way to carry shot while hunting.

I never found that they improved patterns for me so I too went back to the simple life of a smoothbore shooter. What they do help is cut down on the leading. After a string of 10 shots in shooting clay birds in our monthly match when I clean my barrels after shooting without using a paper collar you ought to see the lead that absolutely comes out in thin wide strips as though the shot literally plated the bore with lead. The hot water loosens it and the tight jag pulls it out.

All this leading has to really be messing with the shot that is riding against the bore making it fly wild when it exits the barrel, thus a poor pattern.

Recently I have been experimenting with using a thick piece of cardboard sort of like a folder you use in an office or an index card. I cut them in strips and make them curved so I load the powder and push a wad down about an inch into the muzzle. Then I line the muzzle with one of the index card strips cut to when I place it in the muzzle it encircles the bore. Then I pour in the shot and overshot card and shove all of it down. I've only shot a few like this so I cannot report whether it has helped the pattern yet. Looks promising in my gun.

Bob

 

[Grandpa Ron]

Would think that for skeet you would want an open bore; for trap perhaps not, for a new shooter you definitely want a percussion gun.

Also for a new shooter the less complicated the better.

Let us know how you make out.