Shot the Philly Derringer today to check penetration.

[earlwb]

From some reading, doctors think Lincoln could have been saved today, the theory is the doctors, then, caused as much damage as the projectile

It really depends on the path the bullet took through the brain. If the bullet went in straight and missed the arteries or skidded around the inside of the skull then maybe he could have survived. But if the bullet took a diagonal path through both brain halves it would be extremely unlikely thst he would survive.

But the bullets were usually pretty dirty having picked up lint and dirt. The piece of skull with hair etc in it would be dirty too. Not sure if the bullet was patched or not but the patch would be another source of problems too. Then of course the sanitary practices and wound care was pretty minimal back then too. So even if he survived being shot he would have likely died from infection.

 

[smoothshooter]

What is T-111 ?

That is not much power. Not adequate for any animal except a mouse or snake I would think.
You might goose up the power a little by loading up with 4f powder.

 

[toot]

What is the calibers of the shorties? they are nice!

 

[toot]

In a close range defense situation I would think that the more blast, smoke and flash the better. You only have one shot so make it as impressive as possible.

it is a wonder that at that close the blast did not set ABES' hair on fire!!

 

[earlwb]

What is the calibers of the shorties? they are nice!

The derringer depicted above used .41 RimFire cartridges. Maybe 10-15 grains if black powder inside. It was intended more as a belly gun “get off me” kind of thing. Range was no more than across a card table at most.

The Philly derringer was a .41 caliber muzzleloader. It was loaded with 10-
15 grains of BP.

The modern replicas are typically .44 caliber.

 

[Nobody85]

The ball penetrating through back of skull, lodging behind the right eye. Booth was close enough to powder burn the back of the presidents head. I would assume Booth would have recognized the median charge for the pistol, and then added some to much more. It wouldn’t have matter after a point though as the length of the barrel would prohibit pressure build once the projectile exited the barrel.

 

[Eutycus]

In the opening post tests were done with 20, 30 and 40 grains of powder. Any of the three would seem like a overloading for that short of a barrel. Those last two are "stout" charges for a derringer aren't they?

 

[toot]

earlwb, thank you for the info you provided me. they are all beauties. did / do you ever shoot the 41 rimfires? just courious?

 

[earlwb]

earlwb, thank you for the info you provided me. they are all beauties. did / do you ever shoot the 41 rimfires? just courious?

The ones depicted above are not mine. I sold my last one years ago as .41 rimfire ammo is basically unobtanium. The People that have ammo don’t shoot them due to how hard it would be to replace the ammo. Navy Arms, Canuck, and I think Aquila had made a limited run of the ammo years ago but they never reordered or restocked it.

If I remember right someone may have made some .41 rimfire conversion cases to reloading purposes like they did for the .32 rimfires. They machine the brass out of rods and machine a place on the rim for a small primer. You then dribble in some powder and press in a bullet with your fingers. Load the round carefully positioning the primer for the firing pin to hit, fire it and then repeat the reloading procedure.

 

[toot]

thank you for the reply. I guess that any rim fire cartridges over 22 cal. are as rare as ROCKING HORSE POOP? if you have any just keep them for show not go! the conversion of them sounds like something that I would like to look into.

 

[earlwb]

I have been looking at the Philadelphia Derringer as sold by Dixie Gun Works. They say it is .45 caliber. But I find conflicting data for its bullet size. One source said that they used a .440 ball but another source says to use a .451 ball. In both cases it was patched too. Anyone know what bullet ball size to use with it?

 

[earlwb]

thank you for the reply. I guess that any rim fire cartridges over 22 cal. are as rare as ROCKING HORSE POOP? if you have any just keep them for show not go! the conversion of them sounds like something that I would like to look into.

The rimfire cartridges exist but due to their age nowadays, no one is likely to shoot them. Too expensive being collector items.

Some guns could be switched from center fire to rim fire and back. Those were fairly popular back in the day too.

Here are some examples;
Rimfire adapter cases:
https://www.rccbrass.com/product/32-extra-short-rimfire/
https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...uminum+Rimfire+Case+-+.32RF+(.310+Round+Ball)

 

[Eutycus]

I have been looking at the Philadelphia Derringer as sold by Dixie Gun Works. They say it is .45 caliber. But I find conflicting data for its bullet size. One source said that they used a .440 ball but another source says to use a .451 ball. In both cases it was patched too. Anyone know what bullet ball size to use with it?

Did you ever receive an answer? My derringer is a .45 and uses 440 balls. But then mine isn't Dixie, it's a CVA (Dikar or a Jukar)Who makes this derringer for Dixie?

 

[earlwb]

my apologies for missing your post. I bought the kit. But I haven’t done anything with it yet.

 

[morehops52]

Sorry i missed this earlier. Yes those are stout charges for such a short barrel. That was the point of my test though in that many pocket type pistols are loaded with small charges. How effective could a mild charge be and would bigger loads make a significant difference? My informal testing showed exactly what I was looking for. Light 20gr (or less) charges were anemic for stopping power but each 10g added made a big difference. While 40gr is a lot in that little derringer it is not truly overloading IMO as the barrel is the same as a rifle barrel. I did not feel unsafe shooting it and if I were walking thru 1860's Philadelphia at night that stout charge would be a comforting factor.

 

[morehops52]

Did you ever receive an answer? My derringer is a .45 and uses 440 balls. But then mine isn't Dixie, it's a CVA (Dikar or a Jukar)Who makes this derringer for Dixie?

BTW I was shooting a Traditions 45 that took a 440 RB with a (.0?) tight patch.

 

[Oberst]

The derringer depicted above used .41 RimFire cartridges. Maybe 10-15 grains if black powder inside. It was intended more as a belly gun “get off me” kind of thing. Range was no more than across a card table at most.

The Philly derringer was a .41 caliber muzzleloader. It was loaded with 10-
15 grains of BP.

The modern replicas are typically .44 caliber.

Which would be roughly 10mm.

 

[Sam squanch]

I just read a historical thesis on Abe Lincoln. The author believes he was Jewish. After all, he was shot in the Temple……..

 

[briantllb]

I have a pair of antique Belgian screw barrel rifled percussion pocket pistols in about .44 cal I think. I have never shot them. That would be more than a little illegal here in the UK sadly, because I would love to shoot them along with my 5 barreled Mariette pepperbox, my original .44 Remington New Model Army and my Colt .31 cal Pocket Revolver (1855 build). A really odd thing here is that while Black Powder requires a license to purchase and store, Pyrodex and percussion caps do not.

 

[The Miner '49er]

SDSmlf in reply #46 mentions a 40 gr load of FFFFg in a .45 cal derringer. IIRC Traditions load data for their .45 derringer recommends 35 as max using FFF and doesn't recommend 4F at all. In my.45 Traditions derringer I find a 20 grain load of FFF to be safe and fun to shoot. At four yards, it chronos to 419 fps and 50 ftlbs. I would be cautious of overloading, especially with 4F bp.