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Shot to Powder Ratio

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Razorx

32 Cal.
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
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Hey Everyone,

Need some clarification if you could. I shot a pedersoli 12ga sxs. I shot #6 steel. Only because of were I hunt. My question is were would a good staring point when working a load up. I read that the powder and shot should be the same. Atleast as a staring point. So I was doing 70gr on both shot and powder. But after looking at a chart provided on the forum they said 80gr for and 1 1/8oz. However when I use the pellet count from the manufator of the shot the shot would be 100grs. I counted out the shot and then used a measurer. So would I use 100gr of shot and 80grs of powder. Real confussed! I know that I should scale it but need to get one. Thanks alot.

Nolan
 
Volume wise - start with equal volumes (80 grains FFg is about right and that same measure full of shot). I like 75 gr FFg and 1-1/8oz shot, which is a little light on the powder.

More powder, less lead. Close in, wide spread.

Less powder, more lead. Shots far, kills dead.

A little ditty taught to me by Kit Ravenshear.

To further cornfuse you - 1-1/8 oz is 492 grains (by weight, that is). ;-)
 
http://www.shotgunworld.com/amm.html

Scroll about halfway down and you'll see a "drams equivalent listing"...it lists a lot of modern shotshell loads and their drams equivalent which is what the BP charge was back in the day...compare those to the shot charges and you might get some ideas of ratio from that. (a dram being 27.x grns)
 
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The volume for volume method was developed for use with lead shot loads. When shooting steel shot the powder measure should be set for the desired volume that would be used for lead shot but a different measure should also be used that has been calibrated to pour the actual weight of the shot i.e. 1-1/8 oz of powder by volume as if lead shot were being used and 1-1/8 oz of steel shot by actual weight. If you go volume for volume with steel and BP you end up with blown patterns because you are essentially throwing an over-charge of powder because steel is about 1/3 lighter than lead.
 
I have a 12 GA. Pedersoli double from the early 1970's - long before steel shot requirements. I just assumed I shouldn't put steel shot through it. I sure would like to be able to use it for waterfowl. Wonder if I can? Are the current models specifically rated for steel shot?
 
Generally, you can use a 3:4 ratio in loading Shotgun loads to get better patterns. That is, for every 3 parts of powder, by weight, use 4 parts of steel shot by weight.

It really does depend a lot on the individual gun, whether you are using plastic shotcups, is the gun choked, if choked, what degree of choke, is the barrel designed to use with steel shot, etc.

We ARE ALL waiting to see and test some of the new Non-toxic shot that is being advertised as being suitably soft to use in old barrels made to shoot steel. So far, its been mostly talk, and the testing done has show that the new shot types are still much harder than lead. For that reason, you might expect to damage a barrel made to shoot lead shot by using any of the substitutes.

Most modern Steel Shot users understand that steel shot does not perform well much beyond 40 yards, and that most shooters need to keep their choice of shots at 35 yards and under to insure a kill. I have shot large Canada Geese with steel shot and seen the stuff bounce off the thick feathers. Only a hit in the head or neck, or breaking a wing bone brings them down. This with commercial Steel Shot ammo in modern guns, at ranges under 40 yards.

If I were using steel shot in a MLers, I would restrict my shots to 25 yards, and less. With that restriction, there really is no need to put lots of powder behind the steel shot load. The pellet energy of even steel pellets at those short ranges is quite adequate to bring game down. I was using #1, BB, and T shot when hunting Canada geese back in the day. I was unimpressed with the #1 shot, and now only use steel BB and T shot, when I can find it to shoot geese. #3, and #2 Steel shot should do for ducks, out to about 30 yds.

If you are shooting a 12 gauge, start with a 2 3/4 dram load of FFg powder, and an 1 1/4 oz. volume measure of steel shot. See how it patterns. Work up your powder charges by 5 grain increments to a 3 1/4 dram load of FFg powder. More powder than that just blows the patterns, in my personal experience. I also recommend using an OP wad between the powder and that plastic shotcup, so the base of the cup is not burned, leaving plastic deposits to foul the bore of your gun for the next shots, which will destroy the patterns you get with subsequent shots, until its cleaned out of the barrel.

Here is a list of powder and shot loads from the same " dram " setting, by volume:

2 drams-= 55 grains---=3/4 oz shot.
2 1/4 dr = 62 grains---=7/8 oz shot.
2 1/2 dr = 68 grains---=1 oz shot.
2 3/4 dr = 75 grains---=1 1/8 oz shot.
3------dr = 82 grains---=1 1/4 oz shot.
3 1/4 dr = 89 grains---=1 3/8 oz shot.
3 1/2 dr = 96 grains---=1 1/2 oz shot.
3 3/4 dr = 102 grains--=1 5/8 oz shot.
4------dr = 109 grains--=1 3/4 oz shot.

In working up any shotgun load, you should be conscious of the Sound Barrier, because going through the sound barrier puts all kinds of pressure on round projectiles, including shot. In a shotgun with NO CHOKE, you will get better patterns if you keep the velocity of the load below the sound barrier( nominally 1135 fps.) In some guns that have choked barrels, you also get better patterns when the load is leaving the barrel at under the speed of sound. This does not hold true with all chokes or all choked guns. That is where individual testing HAS to be done, as every barrel, and choke is a creature unto itself.

The best load I found for my cylinder bore 12 ga. DB shotgun is a 2 3/4 dram load of powder behind 1 1/4 oz. of lead shot- normally #5 shot for upland game. This is not a 3:4 ratio. But it happens to work best in my shotgun. The load does leave the muzzles at under the speed of sound, however. I have not yet tried to use my ML shotgun for hunting waterfowl, so I have not tried to pattern steel shot loads through it. I did do extensive patterning with several different size choke tubes I bought for a modern shotgun I have used in hunting Geese.

I personally think using #6 steel for anything other than small ducks and upland game, where steel shot is required is the wrong choice of shot. even then, you have to keep within tht 25 yard range. Because the steel shot is so hard, it does not deform like lead shot, so you can expect it to stay in the pattern in greater numbers than if you used comparable lead shot. At close range, #6 shot is likely to completely penetrate a bird. But, at over 25 yards it begins to loose so much velocity and pellet energy that it becomes unreliable as a killer. I think Roundball's penetration test- use a tuna can and see how much penetration you get in these steel cans at a maximum distance, is a good test that is easy to do. Put the can at 25, then 30 yards, then 35 yards, etc. to see when the shot stops penetrating the can. Then pattern the load to see at what distance holes in the pattern large enough to let a bird pass through begin to appear regularly with that load, and back the range off until the hole is too small to allow that to happen. When a load passes both the pattern test, and the penetration test, you are ready to go hunting.

Best wishes.
 
Hey everyone,

Thanks for your input. I patterned it out this past winter and thought it was okay but was not totally sure. Going to see if I can get out this week and try some of your thoughts. I realize that shooting steel is not really good in this guns. because it is hard on the barrels. What I have done is to make shot cups out of index card kind of like a shot gun shell. Hoping that this would protact the barrel from damage. As I recall the only thing that I saw was that the shot seem to hit low and I was not sure if it was me or the load. I have triied the plastic shot cups(for shot gun reloads) but really did not want to go new school. Plus I never could get them to cut even to get rid of the plastic wad. I know the gun has no chokes so I wont get alot of range but that is okay. I have patterned at 20yrds. But need to look at it again. Thats why I thought I better ask about the shot and powder ratio. Thanks for your help.

Nolan
 
Although a little pricey, the best on the market now is EcoTungsten (a.k.a.Niceshot)...here is my range report from August'08:
====================================
For the possibility of getting a chance at some geese on a local farm, I needed some non-toxic shot for my .62cal smoothbore...tried steel but wasn't satisfied. So I bit the bullet and ordered some EcoTungsten/Nice-Shot...the latest non-toxic and one that is advertised to be a direct replacement for lead in terms of same loading recipes, same performance, but no special shot cups, won't harm your oldest, finest shotgun, etc.

I tested EcoTungsten #6's today against my proven turkey load of lead magnum #6's as a very critical way of testing...looking for a very tight pattern to get killing head shots out to 35-40 yards, and found EcoTungsten to be as good as advertised.

Because my EcoTungsten shot charges cost about $3 each, I first check tested my smoothbore with a few 'lead' turkey loads, then several shots using 'nickel plated #6's as possible improved turkey loads for the future, then finally, I tested 5 shots of EcoTungsten. The turkey target below shows the average results at 35 yards through a 'Full' Jug Choked barrel, 80 pellets on an 8.5"x11" target paper, no shot cup. (lead=54 pellets, nickel plated=58 pellets, EcoTungsten=80 pellets)

082308EcoTungstentargetjpg.jpg
 
Semisane said:
I have a 12 GA. Pedersoli double from the early 1970's - long before steel shot requirements. I just assumed I shouldn't put steel shot through it. I sure would like to be able to use it for waterfowl. Wonder if I can? Are the current models specifically rated for steel shot?
I wouldn't advise it, especially if your barrels are choked. Steel shot doesn't seem to flow through a choke but slams into it and tends to bulge the barrel just at the entrance to the constriction. The bulging will pull the barrels apart from the ribs and totally ruin a double gun. Whether or not this also happens with a jug choke I do not know.
 
CoyoteJoe said:
I wouldn't advise it, especially if your barrels are choked. Steel shot doesn't seem to flow through a choke but slams into it and tends to bulge the barrel just at the entrance to the constriction.
I agree there is no compression of the steel pellets so it does seem they would hit a choke as you say.
Whether or not this also happens with a jug choke I do not know.
I cannot state with any science regarding steel pellets in a Jug Choked barrel...but it seems the same conditions would exist...given that the main principle of a Jug Choke is an expansion chamber, from which the expanded shot charge would then hit the final inch of the original bore...which although "cylinder bore" in size...would be a "choke" to the expanded shot charge arriving at it.

I did test steel in my 'Full' Jug Choked .62cal and could tell no ill effects...and only did so on the faith of the extremely thick strong special shot cups from Ballistics Products to be used with steel.
The cups are so stiff and strong that I figured they'd go straight on through the expansion chamber without allowing much if any expansion, and if so, still being contained in the long shot cup, it would not allow a "bunched shot" situation to be presented at the stepdown to cylinder bore again...seemed to work fine as far as the Jug Choke was concerned.

On the other hand, I personally would not trust a thin index card material to keep steel from pinching through it and gouging the bore walls or bunching at a choke.
 
the last time I shot honkers I used Dasiey B-B's and 1 1/2 oz. by weight and 75 grns 2 ff Goex.
used over powder, cushion wad and a top card wad.cyl bore gun, shot at least 24 shots and never had any wear or scoring. was a t.c. new englander.
did a fine job out to 25 yards.killed my limit and sure opened some eyes of the other hunters. was a fine day!!
 
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