Shotcups

[Taxidermydude69]

yes .. I put the nipple end in a coffee can full of hot soapy water and run the cotton mop in and out several times , maybe a bore brush then do the same with clean water. Dry it on the outside with a towel and run some moose milk and dry patches and then a slightly soaked straight Ballistol foam mop … brush and clean around the nipple holes .. Ballistol patch over the whole thing ..
Then the nipples , hammers & the area around where the barrel fits in gets cleaned. It’s about the simplest BP gun to clean to me.
[/QUso. if I don't have Ballistrol will hops work? Moose milk? So is that a lube? Yeah I'm green. I used thunder cloud on the inside after cleaning last yr so now I need to run a mop with solvent down it to gethat out?

 

[Grenadier1758]

So roughly would 80 grs of powder equal an ounce and a half of shot by volume?

Fortunately, we have the Topics of Useful Information in the General Muzzleloading Forum. One of the topics is a conversion of shot loads by black powder volume measure. This is the same table that @Loyalist Dave posted above and a steel shot table and lead shot table. Probably could be updated for bismuth shot.

Powder Measure Shot Loads Chart | The Muzzleloading Forum

The answer provided in that topic is that the 80 grain volume measure of black powder will throw 1 1/8 ounces of shot. There will be minor differences due to shot sizes, but for our use, the reference table is valid.

 

[Taxidermydude69]

Thank you

 

[Brokennock]

Nope,

Here is a chart. NOW you need to double check by actually weighing what the measure "throws", (about five times and take an average) as it has also been found that different makes of BP powder measures while all set on the same amount, may throw different amounts of powder. Also the size of the shot may throw off the weight, AND if you use steel shot for waterfowl, it's completely different as steel is much lighter...

Powder Measure used for Shot

50 grains = ¾ ounce

60 grains = ⅞ ounce

70 grains = 1 ounce

80 grains = 1⅛ ounce

90 grains = 1¼ ounce

100 grains = 1⅜ ounce

110 grains = 1½ ounce

120 grains = 1⅝ ounce

I think I got this ⬆ from @Brokennock . Works well for me, but what I did was to pattern my trade guns and my carbine. When I got the shot pattern right, I simply used that. Later I got this chart and it showed I'm using 1½ ounces of shot, with an 80 grain load of 3Fg (since I put my measure on 110 to measure shot). I weighed the shot and it was so close to that figure that I found the chart to be accurate for me.


LD

@Grenadier1758 posted a link to where I got the chart. It is quite handy if one wants to get technical. I've found that just using the same measure as for powder or one of 10 grains more works fine for me. Usually I go 10 over, such as 60 grains powder and a 70 grain powder measure of shot.

 

[Sparkitoff]

The powder volume doesn't need to be precise. If you want a square load it just needs to match the shot volume by using the same measurer. For instance, while the chart provided says 60 grains = 7/8 ounce, my scoop actually holds 65 grains and 7/8 ounce. There's also discussion (maybe even argument) throughout the forum archives regarding the type/granulation of powder. Personally, I've never worried over this. I interchangeably use Pyrodex P and RS and Goex 2F and 3F. There are also other choices like 1F and 1 1/2 F, 777 (2F and 3F), 4F and a bunch more! It makes a huge difference in a rifle, but not so much in a shotgun. Just use the same volume powder as shot or use LESS powder than shot for good patterns. Just like Brokennock points out...

 

[Taxidermydude69]

When I called cva which is bpi or something last yr they told me that pyrodex and other brands have misfires so bought some goex 3 f.. good to know I can buy pyrodex local

 

[Grenadier1758]

yes .. I put the nipple end in a coffee can full of hot soapy water and run the cotton mop in and out several times , maybe a bore brush then do the same with clean water. Dry it on the outside with a towel and run some moose milk and dry patches and then a slightly soaked straight Ballistol foam mop … brush and clean around the nipple holes .. Ballistol patch over the whole thing ..
Then the nipples , hammers & the area around where the barrel fits in gets cleaned. It’s about the simplest BP gun to clean to me.

@Taxidermydude69, there are a variety of lubrications that can be used to protect the bore after cleaning. Once the barrel is clean by flushing the barrel with soapy water and rinsing with clean water, the water must be removed. I like to use WD40 or rubbing alcohol to displace the remaining water in the bore. Moose Milk is any of various mixes of a water soluble oil and water. I am aware of several versions and all work equally well. (Of course if you are not using my mix, you are just wasting your time. ) The Moose Milk formulas out there all have an oil and water and perhaps some soap. Wiping the bore with Moose Milk works well as a patch lube and a patch lubricant for wiping the bore between shots. Do take care to avoid filling the flash channel with fouling as you wipe the bore with a damp patch. You are cleaning now so, the flash channel can be assumed to be clean. After water has been displaced from the barrel, a few dry patches can be used to verify the last of the fouling and water is gone. Then it is time for applying a rust inhibiting lubrication to the barrel.

To prepare the barrel for storage after cleaning the use of a rust inhibiting lubrication is important. Ballistol is one brand, Hoppes (Black Powder Formula) is another. I prefer to use an evaporating lubrication such as Barricade, Boeshield, or G96. We all may have different preferences, but a common attribute is that all evaporate and leave a rust inhibiting layer of lubricant. Do store the rifle with the muzzle down to allow the final lubricant to drain from the breech and flash channel. I recommend wiping the bore with rubbing alcohol before loading after storage. Some have found that is not really necessary, but a damp patch with rubbing alcohol will verify the rifle is unloaded with a clear flash channel and ready for use.

 

[Taxidermydude69]

Awesome. Thank you

 

[Brokennock]

Just for information purposes.

Yes, it seems a little over complicated to some. But, I wanted a way to get 2 wraps around the shot but only have one thickness of paper where it gets twisted closed. And, I want it to be consistent, good patterns are tough enough to get, especially good repeatable patterns, no sense using a method that isn't consistent.

 

[Taxidermydude69]

Makes sense

 

[Grenadier1758]

When I called cva which is bpi or something last yr they told me that pyrodex and other brands have misfires so bought some goex 3 f.. good to know I can buy pyrodex local

Black Powder is superior to all of the substitutes. The 777 brand of substitute black powders is also a reasonable choice and some claim it is more reliable than Pyrodex. When using the substitute powders in a percussion firearm (not recommended for a flint lock), a nipple designed to enhance the flame path from the cap to powder charge is recommended. I have used the Hot Shot nipple and found it reliable.

 

[Taxidermydude69]

Good deal. I had a problem last yr and #11 caps. Apparently my cva came with #10 nipple. Couldnt find any # 11 nipples. Ordered 1 from somewhere and caps still don't go down all the way. Had a turkey 20 yds last yr and snap and no boom. Second time did it. Doouhink track of the wolf would have the right nipple? ithough

 

[Sparkitoff]

A good way to clear a nipple when cleaning or before loading for a hunt or at the range is to use Electric Contact Cleaner. The can come with a little straw. One squirt in nipple and it’s clear. You can hear the spray in the barrel and if you spray a lot some will run out the muzzle. Between the pressure and chemicals it will dissolve any carbon and crud, but it evaporates in seconds.

 

[Taxidermydude69]

Ok but I still need the right nipple for # 11 caps

 

[oldwood]

Since I came to the Forum , I kept my shot gun experience strictly to traditional bent. Time to fess up some. Dear old Dad had me shooting trap when 12 yrs. old. As we expanded to competition shooting , I was introduced to a formal trap shooting coach . We shot in a league in summer , which I continued to do into about 1972. I won a local trap league championship , and got bored , causing me to explore muzzle loading shotguns and big bore flint muskets. Not knowing much about how to effectively load a m/l smooth bore , I went to my knowledge of loading thousands of rounds of modern shotgun ammo. I used plastic shot cups and modern highly flexible wads with great success hunting with 10 ga. , 12 ga. , and 14 ga. smooth bores. The initial wad expanding pressure spikes at the beginning of a black powder ignition are lower and slower , that's why I say I used , thin wads and shot cups in m/l shotguns. I did a lot of testing trying to bridge the differences between Patterns and performance of shot shell guns vs. , m/l smooth bores. Personally , in the last 50 years , I've totally switched over tom/l smooth bores , and haven't fired a ctg. shotgun except a .410 bore in an emergency to dust a 44 " timber snake that came into my space unannounced and put my dog in danger. ...........oldwood

 

[Taxidermydude69]

Interesting. It gets ya hooked. Got an inline 2 yr ago and liked it real good. Then last yr got the cva gobbler series shotgun that had never been fired. Then I was really hooked when I got an 1858 stainless pietta and had custom grips made from chigs grips in Missouri. Asweome job on them. And it is 1 of a kind. Then already being hooked I got an 1851 colt Wyatt Earp revolver from Dixie gun works. 12 inch barrel. Bought it more less for a show piece. Never fired it. Yeah I'm hooked. Once I get a double barrel and a walker I'm complete.

 

[Rfp10000]

“I like to use WD40 or rubbing alcohol to displace the remaining water in the bore. Moose Milk is any of various mixes of a water soluble oil and water.”

the barrel is pretty hot when I’m done with a rinse and I use a 1 to 7 Ballistol/ water patch afterward … I do use sometimes a heat gun/hairdryer to get the barrel hot and evaporate the water. I don’t have a lot of experience with other products but leave things in parts for a day . I give it some patches and a look over the next day and if I see anything that looks like fouling or rust I attend to it. Everything is a work in progress for me with this stuff
So far I’ve been afraid to use plastic cups….because of potential cleaning issues among other things …

 

[Taxidermydude69]

Yeah me 2. Lots of upkeep but a good hobby

 

[TScottW99]

I bought a CVA Gobbler recently on this forum.

So far, my best load is :

70 grains of FFFg
3 overshot cards
80 grains of copper plated #6
Wool wad for overshot.

 

[Taxidermydude69]

Awesome. Almost identical. Only difference may be the nwtf logo but still same gun. Awesome. Going to shoot probably tomorrow and I'll try 70 grs but only have # 10 lead